what flywheel should i get?????
12-02-2003, 07:22 AM
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what flywheel should i get?????
my dealer is going to be changing out my tranny soon, so i figure why not do the flywheel then too? but i dont know much about them. whats the best? do i need to change anything else at the same time? thanks guys!
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12-02-2003, 06:10 PM
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There will be less engine braking and you will have to press the brakes harder to stop. Also the difference in revs and acceleration is marginal. There may be a nice difference but it is not night and day. It is easier to rev match/downshift because the revs do not fall as fast because there is less engine braking.
12-02-2003, 06:12 PM
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I thought stock was 31 lbs.
I'd like to try that TILTON 8 lb. flywheel. Jeff at Performance Nissan told me he took it out of his car. It revved to the redline in 1st before he could take his foot off the gas. Sounds like fun.
Where do you buy the Tilton Unit, and do you have to get their clutch too? Anyone know prices of Tilton flywheel and clutch? Thanks.
Where do you buy the Tilton Unit, and do you have to get their clutch too? Anyone know prices of Tilton flywheel and clutch? Thanks.
12-02-2003, 06:13 PM
#16
Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
There will be less engine braking and you will have to press the brakes harder to stop. Also the difference in revs and acceleration is marginal. There may be a nice difference but it is not night and day. It is easier to rev match/downshift because the revs do not fall as fast because there is less engine braking.
There will be less engine braking and you will have to press the brakes harder to stop. Also the difference in revs and acceleration is marginal. There may be a nice difference but it is not night and day. It is easier to rev match/downshift because the revs do not fall as fast because there is less engine braking.
on the tilton if you lift your foot off the gas leaving it in gear the car slows down quickly
hrmmm...
when NOT in gear the rev's will fall slower though...
Maybe im calling leaving the car in gear without putting the gas engine braking when it should be called something else?
12-02-2003, 06:17 PM
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Don't know what to tell you buddy. I don't have the Tilton. Just relating my experience with the product I have installed. The guy asked about the JWT, not the Tilton. Either way, a lighter flywheel will provide less engine braking and require more braking effort to slow down. Tis a fact.
12-02-2003, 07:08 PM
#18
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Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
Don't know what to tell you buddy. I don't have the Tilton. Just relating my experience with the product I have installed. The guy asked about the JWT, not the Tilton. Either way, a lighter flywheel will provide less engine braking and require more braking effort to slow down. Tis a fact.
Don't know what to tell you buddy. I don't have the Tilton. Just relating my experience with the product I have installed. The guy asked about the JWT, not the Tilton. Either way, a lighter flywheel will provide less engine braking and require more braking effort to slow down. Tis a fact.
If you're looking for performance a lighter flywheel is the way to go.
If you're looking for less vibrations, quieter, smoother, etc... stick with a heavier item.
Also - if you're a drag racer... DO NOT order a ligher flywheel. While on the flip side, I prefer road racing... so I'll enjoy this piece!
12-02-2003, 07:53 PM
#19
The way I understand it and have read (will post reference below) that the less amount of rotating mass you have the less inertia is realized in the (in the case) flywheel. The less mass that is in motion the easier it slows down.
When cruising with a heavy flywheel the Inertia caused by the rotating mass helps keep the engine at the said RPM. Like when cruising on the free way at 60 in 5th gear, lifting your foot off the gas (5th gear engaged foot OFF of clutch) you slow down very slowly. With a lighter flywheel there is less rotating mass there for less inertia so the mass slows down faster. 5th gear at 60, lift foot off gas, slow down faster, use less brakes.
Like when you down shift to stop at a light you rely on "engine braking" to slow you down faster ... other wise what is the point of down shifting if the engine isn't going to help you brake? It will help you brake even MORE with a lighter flywheel.
Here is my reference...
When cruising with a heavy flywheel the Inertia caused by the rotating mass helps keep the engine at the said RPM. Like when cruising on the free way at 60 in 5th gear, lifting your foot off the gas (5th gear engaged foot OFF of clutch) you slow down very slowly. With a lighter flywheel there is less rotating mass there for less inertia so the mass slows down faster. 5th gear at 60, lift foot off gas, slow down faster, use less brakes.
Like when you down shift to stop at a light you rely on "engine braking" to slow you down faster ... other wise what is the point of down shifting if the engine isn't going to help you brake? It will help you brake even MORE with a lighter flywheel.
Here is my reference...
The MOI Difference
The flywheel by literal definition is an energy storage device. It takes energy to spin the flywheel and clutch up to speed. If it is heavier or larger in diameter it takes even more energy to spin up to speed. This energy comes from the engine in the form of horsepower. Every horsepower that it uses to rotationally accelerate the flywheel and clutch assembly is a horsepower that does not make its way to the rear wheels to accelerate the car when on the throttle.
The rotating energy in the flywheel and clutch does not disappear. As we said before the flywheel is an energy storage device. It releases the stored energy when you are on the breaks. Just when you are trying to slow the car down that energy is pumped back into the drivetrain trying to push the car forward. Therefore, you have to work the breaks a little harder. Reducing the MOI (mass moment of inertia) of the flywheel and the clutch that rotates with it can increase the car's acceleration and aid in braking.
Determining the MOI of a part takes a special measuring device that is not found in the average race shop. Weight is a factor in determining the MOI. But, how far the weight is located from the axis of rotation is even more important and often overlooked. The MOI rating, usually measured in lb-in^2, is a figure that accounts for the weight and the location of that weight. When comparing two different components the one that has the lower MOI is the one that robs the least amount of horsepower during acceleration. So, when comparing two different parts one should ask what the MOI is, not the weight.
Doubling the weight of an object without changing how far the weight (technically mass) is from the axis of rotation doubles the MOI, which follows common sense. Doubling how far the weight is from the axis of rotation quadruples the MOI, which is not as intuitive and demands a closer look. Since it is twice as far out it must be bought up to twice the linear speed to reach the same RPM. To do that in the same amount of time requires twice (2) the linear acceleration. And, being twice as far away from the axis of rotation we lose half of our leverage and it takes twice (2) as much torque to reach even the same linear acceleration. Accounting for needing twice the acceleration and twice the torque we see that 2 x 2 = 4 times the horsepower robbing effect or MOI. Likewise, moving the weight to three times as far from the axis of rotation multiplies the MOI nine times!
How large of an effect the diameter has is shown by the fact that the MOI of a 168 tooth Chevrolet flexplate is more than that of a good small block Chevrolet racing crankshaft. Yet, look at the difference in weight!
It is the combined MOI of the clutch and flywheel together that matters. When comparing look at the whole package. Looking at the clutch alone does not reveal the entire situation. And, remember that diamater has a much larger effect than weight.
Work by Tilton Engineering, Inc. to reduce the MOI on the Dodge Viper clutch and flywheel assembly allows an increase of 30 horsepower at the rear wheels without a single internal modification or additional stresses on the engine. This is how you find reliable horsepower.
Michael O'Neil
Managing Engineer
Tilton Engineering, Inc.
The flywheel by literal definition is an energy storage device. It takes energy to spin the flywheel and clutch up to speed. If it is heavier or larger in diameter it takes even more energy to spin up to speed. This energy comes from the engine in the form of horsepower. Every horsepower that it uses to rotationally accelerate the flywheel and clutch assembly is a horsepower that does not make its way to the rear wheels to accelerate the car when on the throttle.
The rotating energy in the flywheel and clutch does not disappear. As we said before the flywheel is an energy storage device. It releases the stored energy when you are on the breaks. Just when you are trying to slow the car down that energy is pumped back into the drivetrain trying to push the car forward. Therefore, you have to work the breaks a little harder. Reducing the MOI (mass moment of inertia) of the flywheel and the clutch that rotates with it can increase the car's acceleration and aid in braking.
Determining the MOI of a part takes a special measuring device that is not found in the average race shop. Weight is a factor in determining the MOI. But, how far the weight is located from the axis of rotation is even more important and often overlooked. The MOI rating, usually measured in lb-in^2, is a figure that accounts for the weight and the location of that weight. When comparing two different components the one that has the lower MOI is the one that robs the least amount of horsepower during acceleration. So, when comparing two different parts one should ask what the MOI is, not the weight.
Doubling the weight of an object without changing how far the weight (technically mass) is from the axis of rotation doubles the MOI, which follows common sense. Doubling how far the weight is from the axis of rotation quadruples the MOI, which is not as intuitive and demands a closer look. Since it is twice as far out it must be bought up to twice the linear speed to reach the same RPM. To do that in the same amount of time requires twice (2) the linear acceleration. And, being twice as far away from the axis of rotation we lose half of our leverage and it takes twice (2) as much torque to reach even the same linear acceleration. Accounting for needing twice the acceleration and twice the torque we see that 2 x 2 = 4 times the horsepower robbing effect or MOI. Likewise, moving the weight to three times as far from the axis of rotation multiplies the MOI nine times!
How large of an effect the diameter has is shown by the fact that the MOI of a 168 tooth Chevrolet flexplate is more than that of a good small block Chevrolet racing crankshaft. Yet, look at the difference in weight!
It is the combined MOI of the clutch and flywheel together that matters. When comparing look at the whole package. Looking at the clutch alone does not reveal the entire situation. And, remember that diamater has a much larger effect than weight.
Work by Tilton Engineering, Inc. to reduce the MOI on the Dodge Viper clutch and flywheel assembly allows an increase of 30 horsepower at the rear wheels without a single internal modification or additional stresses on the engine. This is how you find reliable horsepower.
Michael O'Neil
Managing Engineer
Tilton Engineering, Inc.
12-02-2003, 08:19 PM
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Well, maybe your article is wrong.
You don't buy a flywheel to stop easier at a stoplight and, really, you shouldn't downshift when coming to a stop. Just use the brakes. Of course that is a opinion.
You also don't downshift to slow down, you downshift to be in the right RPM range to power out of a corner as fast as possible. You use the brakes to slow down. Yes, sometimes it is more conducive to use other means to get around a corner. Sometimes you let the clutch out in the middle instead of before the corner if you want to pop the rear around, but that's another story.
Also, a quite obvious observation while driving is when on the highway and coming up on slower cars, it no longer suffices to simply let off the gas to let the engine slow me down. I have to hit the brakes sooner and harder to avoid uh, problems.
You don't buy a flywheel to stop easier at a stoplight and, really, you shouldn't downshift when coming to a stop. Just use the brakes. Of course that is a opinion.
You also don't downshift to slow down, you downshift to be in the right RPM range to power out of a corner as fast as possible. You use the brakes to slow down. Yes, sometimes it is more conducive to use other means to get around a corner. Sometimes you let the clutch out in the middle instead of before the corner if you want to pop the rear around, but that's another story.
Also, a quite obvious observation while driving is when on the highway and coming up on slower cars, it no longer suffices to simply let off the gas to let the engine slow me down. I have to hit the brakes sooner and harder to avoid uh, problems.