Help me decide on an engine
10-23-2011, 02:29 PM
#1
Help me decide on an engine
It's going to be some sort of LS. Goals are 500-550rwhp n/a, setup for a 150-200 shot on top of that.
LS9 not an option. I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible obviously, and would prefer to not just buy a crate engine.
LS9 not an option. I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible obviously, and would prefer to not just buy a crate engine.
10-23-2011, 03:36 PM
#2
Passing on advice Vas gave me. Find an LS2/T56 dropout from a 05-06 GTO and your off to a solid start. If you are going to do a full build, an LS1 or even the iron truck block (I forget the designation) will save money and then just punch it out to a 383 or 402.
The GTO dropout will run you ~$6500 shipped from someone like LKQ. I found mine on Ebay, but the ls1tech forum is a great resource as well as you know.
Welcome to the darker dark side
The GTO dropout will run you ~$6500 shipped from someone like LKQ. I found mine on Ebay, but the ls1tech forum is a great resource as well as you know.
Welcome to the darker dark side
10-23-2011, 04:58 PM
#4
My opinion is go with an LS1/LS6 so you save enough money to buy forged internals. You can still make high 400's NA and have a near bullet proof motor.
10-23-2011, 05:17 PM
#5
10-23-2011, 07:04 PM
#7
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I am building an LS6 and I am building the enitire motor myself. I do not know why you need 550hp with nos. What is the goal? Dyno queen or strip car. If this is a driver or autocross car 450 NA is plenty. Have you ever driven a vette? An ls motor is nothing like our cars...it has real power.
Last edited by Rambo; 10-23-2011 at 07:06 PM.
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10-23-2011, 07:32 PM
#8
Fluid1,
As you may or may not know I have had an LS in my Z for over a year now. Last year it was just a bone stock LS1 with a TH400 three speed that put down 322whp. What I can say is that in that trim the car was still extremely fast. Now my car is stroked, high compression and on a massive diet... the car is simply a beast.
The reason that I recommended what I did is because based on what you are looking for it sounds like you will need quite a robust motor. A stock LS2 is not going to handle 500whp plus a 150shot of nitrous very long. The end result will still be a built motor. Now if you have the money to swing buying an LS2 and building it go right ahead. If not, save the money and buy the .3L smaller LS1 and build the bottom end to handle as much nitrous as you want at it.
I don't want to offend you because I don't know the cars you have had, but a 450whp LS is far from settling. It is nothing like a 450whp VQ. Remember, this is coming from someone using a three speed with a first gear that goes to 54mph and second gear that goes to 91 mph on my street tires with a stock 6,000rpm redline. 58mph and 98mph respectively on my race tires. I highly doubt that a 450whp VQ would seem especially fast with my setup, but the LS is simply amazing in my car. Now put a six speed in there with significantly more mechanical advantage and less parasitic loss than my TH400 and I would find it even harder to believe that 450whp can't meet your needs on the street. Beyond that the nitrous will take car of the rest at the track.
As you may or may not know I have had an LS in my Z for over a year now. Last year it was just a bone stock LS1 with a TH400 three speed that put down 322whp. What I can say is that in that trim the car was still extremely fast. Now my car is stroked, high compression and on a massive diet... the car is simply a beast.
The reason that I recommended what I did is because based on what you are looking for it sounds like you will need quite a robust motor. A stock LS2 is not going to handle 500whp plus a 150shot of nitrous very long. The end result will still be a built motor. Now if you have the money to swing buying an LS2 and building it go right ahead. If not, save the money and buy the .3L smaller LS1 and build the bottom end to handle as much nitrous as you want at it.
I don't want to offend you because I don't know the cars you have had, but a 450whp LS is far from settling. It is nothing like a 450whp VQ. Remember, this is coming from someone using a three speed with a first gear that goes to 54mph and second gear that goes to 91 mph on my street tires with a stock 6,000rpm redline. 58mph and 98mph respectively on my race tires. I highly doubt that a 450whp VQ would seem especially fast with my setup, but the LS is simply amazing in my car. Now put a six speed in there with significantly more mechanical advantage and less parasitic loss than my TH400 and I would find it even harder to believe that 450whp can't meet your needs on the street. Beyond that the nitrous will take car of the rest at the track.
Last edited by Quamen; 10-23-2011 at 07:33 PM.
10-24-2011, 05:07 AM
#9
I have heard this more and more as I go. I don't have any specific goals, won't be racing the car and maybe take it to the strip once in a while. Just a car I'll drive about 3 times a week. I'll give a little history I guess.
I've had 18 vehicles. Only one was a truck, two crotch rockets, and I'd say 10 were heavily modded. The 350Z I just had pop was my 3rd Z. It was the second one with turbo, and I had it at various stages. Most recent was over 600rwhp. I've raced road courses, been very very fast, and am looking to make a street car that will be faster than nearly anything on the road, bikes, turbo lambos, etc.
My goal was 700 wheel. I know that's an insane amount of power. I figured 550 n/a and then a 150 shot on top of that. Everyone and their brother are telling me I'm nuts though.
Quamen, what was the reason behind your particular tranny setup? Wasn't it much harder to customize than the T56/Sikky? I mean I know the drawbacks of the T56....
I've had 18 vehicles. Only one was a truck, two crotch rockets, and I'd say 10 were heavily modded. The 350Z I just had pop was my 3rd Z. It was the second one with turbo, and I had it at various stages. Most recent was over 600rwhp. I've raced road courses, been very very fast, and am looking to make a street car that will be faster than nearly anything on the road, bikes, turbo lambos, etc.
My goal was 700 wheel. I know that's an insane amount of power. I figured 550 n/a and then a 150 shot on top of that. Everyone and their brother are telling me I'm nuts though.
Quamen, what was the reason behind your particular tranny setup? Wasn't it much harder to customize than the T56/Sikky? I mean I know the drawbacks of the T56....
Last edited by Fluid1; 10-24-2011 at 05:16 AM.
10-24-2011, 05:32 AM
#10
I've had 18 vehicles. Only one was a truck, two crotch rockets, and I'd say 10 were heavily modded. The 350Z I just had pop was my 3rd Z. It was the second one with turbo, and I had it at various stages. Most recent was over 600rwhp. I've raced road courses, been very very fast, and am looking to make a street car that will be faster than nearly anything on the road, bikes, turbo lambos, etc.
I personally think the TH400 was easy to install in my car. Had I used a Sikky mounting kit it would have been even easier since the motor would have been further forward. Since I made my own kit my motor sits about a 1/2" from the firewall and I had to tap some clearance into the tunnel near the bell housing. The rest of the transmission has tons of clearance other than right near the block. My primary reason for choosing the Th400 was my car is a drag car and the automatic is faster than the T56. However, I must say the automatic makes the car much more manageable on the street and I feel I have have more traction due to the taller gears. Being able to accelerate in 1st gear is nice for a change.
10-24-2011, 06:52 AM
#11
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Turbo Lambo? Aiming high with a low hp car no? Maybe it's just Texas, but turbo lambo's here run 1300-2000 whp... tx2k11. You tube the **** people have down here... If you don't have 900+hp Midas well watch and save your gas. Def build a LS1/6 lots of guys are building the ls1/6 for pro chargers and getting amazing results. I doubt your going to be running a 200 shot very long, especially without building the bottom end. Your better doing a fullon bottle fed build, or full on na build...
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
Far as options.
LS3 from a truck, (cast iron block)
LS1 (5.3 also from a truck)
Both are pretty cheap and easy to source.
Or if you want I have a already built by lingenfelter ls1/6 good for 430hp and thats on a ls1 intake.. Swap to the ls6 unit for another 15-30hp and you have your engine.. Pm me in your curious..
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
Far as options.
LS3 from a truck, (cast iron block)
LS1 (5.3 also from a truck)
Both are pretty cheap and easy to source.
Or if you want I have a already built by lingenfelter ls1/6 good for 430hp and thats on a ls1 intake.. Swap to the ls6 unit for another 15-30hp and you have your engine.. Pm me in your curious..
Last edited by TehkMob; 10-24-2011 at 07:23 AM.
10-24-2011, 07:29 AM
#12
Def build a LS1/6 lots of guys are building the ls1/6 for pro chargers and getting amazing results. I doubt your going to be running a 200 shot very long, especially without building the bottom end. Your better doing a fullon bottle fed build, or full on na build... To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
10-24-2011, 08:14 AM
#13
Turbo Lambo? Aiming high with a low hp car no? Maybe it's just Texas, but turbo lambo's here run 1300-2000 whp... tx2k11. You tube the **** people have down here... If you don't have 900+hp Midas well watch and save your gas. Def build a LS1/6 lots of guys are building the ls1/6 for pro chargers and getting amazing results. I doubt your going to be running a 200 shot very long, especially without building the bottom end. Your better doing a fullon bottle fed build, or full on na build...
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
Far as options.
LS3 from a truck, (cast iron block)
LS1 (5.3 also from a truck)
Both are pretty cheap and easy to source.
Or if you want I have a already built by lingenfelter ls1/6 good for 430hp and thats on a ls1 intake.. Swap to the ls6 unit for another 15-30hp and you have your engine.. Pm me in your curious..
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
Far as options.
LS3 from a truck, (cast iron block)
LS1 (5.3 also from a truck)
Both are pretty cheap and easy to source.
Or if you want I have a already built by lingenfelter ls1/6 good for 430hp and thats on a ls1 intake.. Swap to the ls6 unit for another 15-30hp and you have your engine.. Pm me in your curious..
10-24-2011, 08:16 AM
#14
Turbo Lambo? Aiming high with a low hp car no? Maybe it's just Texas, but turbo lambo's here run 1300-2000 whp... tx2k11. You tube the **** people have down here... If you don't have 900+hp Midas well watch and save your gas. Def build a LS1/6 lots of guys are building the ls1/6 for pro chargers and getting amazing results. I doubt your going to be running a 200 shot very long, especially without building the bottom end. Your better doing a fullon bottle fed build, or full on na build...
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
To run shots that's size your motor has to be built for it to last. At that level it's just like going fi. It all comes down to timing, tuning and legit parts.
Youtube them too I know what I'm getting into and I'm serious.
I'm ready to do a full on bottle build. LS1 or LS2. That is the question. lol
10-24-2011, 01:04 PM
#20
please dont buy a ls3 thinking your gona get a iron block ls1 you will be very sad when you get it lol. all the ls# rpo codes are aluminum block, ls1 is the 5.7L aluminum block, ls2 is the 6.0L aluminum block, ls3 is the 6.2L aluminum block with variable valve timing. theres also the ls4 which is a 5.3L aluminum but stay away as its for fwd vehicles like the grand prix gxp.
For iron blocks you want the lq4 or lq9 for the 6.0L, the other options are the 4.8L which i dont know the rpo code for and then also the 5.3L which is the LY5 or the or LMG there is no 5.7L iron block.
What you can do for 5.7L iron block is get a 5.3 and bore it out, there is actually so much meat in the walls that it can be done and still have the same wall thickness as a small block 350 with a .030 overbore. personally i would keep it as a 5.3L though with the extra thickness and never have to worry about the block itself.
There are also several other people who have done the 5.3 swap into things or boosted the power significantly. one magazine ran new heads intake and extreme cam in it making 600 at the engine at 8k rpms, another dude swapped one into his ford falcon with heads and cams and was making 800 hp to the wheels on a stock bottom end through a procharger, had about 8k miles on it when the article had been done. One of the magazines in july when i was on r&r i saw was trying to blow up a 5.3, has it up to 1200 hp at the crank and it was still holding.
There is one other engine the only aluminum block to be put into a truck to my knowledge is the l99 its a 6.2L with variable valve timing as well.
outside of the ls4 all of them share motor mount points and bolts patterns for the bellhousings. i could be wrong on the no 5.7L iron block as well as its been several years since i worked at the dealerships but im 98% sure on it.
For iron blocks you want the lq4 or lq9 for the 6.0L, the other options are the 4.8L which i dont know the rpo code for and then also the 5.3L which is the LY5 or the or LMG there is no 5.7L iron block.
What you can do for 5.7L iron block is get a 5.3 and bore it out, there is actually so much meat in the walls that it can be done and still have the same wall thickness as a small block 350 with a .030 overbore. personally i would keep it as a 5.3L though with the extra thickness and never have to worry about the block itself.
There are also several other people who have done the 5.3 swap into things or boosted the power significantly. one magazine ran new heads intake and extreme cam in it making 600 at the engine at 8k rpms, another dude swapped one into his ford falcon with heads and cams and was making 800 hp to the wheels on a stock bottom end through a procharger, had about 8k miles on it when the article had been done. One of the magazines in july when i was on r&r i saw was trying to blow up a 5.3, has it up to 1200 hp at the crank and it was still holding.
There is one other engine the only aluminum block to be put into a truck to my knowledge is the l99 its a 6.2L with variable valve timing as well.
outside of the ls4 all of them share motor mount points and bolts patterns for the bellhousings. i could be wrong on the no 5.7L iron block as well as its been several years since i worked at the dealerships but im 98% sure on it.