I noticed that every one uses the revup oil pump , a few people used the Nismo oil pump. But has any one used the Cosworth oil pump? Is it any better than revup?

 

I am interested to know as well. I am trying to decide which one to go with on my build Nismo/Revup/Cosworth.

 

Considering the cost vs the fact that its a mechanical pump I don't see how it would make a difference. If you open up an oil pump for a VQ is basically a large toothed gear with a keyway that attaches to the crank.

IMO you are just paying for the name on the other pumps and unless you are spinning over 8K rpms and doing a mega-build its probably overkill.

 

well I want to rev to 8-8500 and most people go with the revup pump. I was wondering if there is any mechanical benefit to the cosworth pump. Like a stronger gear or different shaped gear like the nismo. if there is a mechanical advantage over the rev up I can justify spending the extra $300 and have a peace of mind knowing it wont brake

 

I would imagine the Cosworth should be "stronger" I would contact them and see what they say about it.

 

So exactly what's the differences between nismo and the revup?

 

I read somewhere in another thread that the nismo the gear is rounded off more, or something like that, I dont remember correctly . I do know that the difference between rev up and non rev up is the weight of the gear and the oil pressure spring.

I was wondering what exactly fails in the non rev up oil pump? the gear teeth brake off??

 

No chance of teeth breaking off, they are super beefy, even on the rev-up. I've had 5 built engines fail, all from oil starvation. Every time we disassembled and checked the oil pumps they were in proper working order. Who knows why the fawk shizz fails... sometimes it just does. The world is an imperfect place.

OP, who is your tuner? Just want to know who thinks its a solid idea to rev to 8500rpm. Where did you get that redline from?

 

my tuner is "the shop CT". I have a rev up engine and want to go to 8k rpm , I know Jeff has 8500rpm redline. but i really dont want to push it that much. i think from 7200 rpm to 8k rpm should be just fine.

I also had oil starvation on my first build and want to avoid the same problem again. I did have a revup pump but it was re used from my original block.

Cass which bearings went on your build?
I spun 2 main bearings and it was the middle 2 which was weird that the last bearing closest to the rear seal was just fine

 

just ordered a rev up pump, but it would be nice to get more info on the cosworth oil pump for others since its still an option

 

I've had 3 sets of ACLs and stock Nissan twice... they all failed. I also had wear in the center more than the front and rear. Just watch that oil pressure like a hawk.

 

I had ACL bearings and I always watch the oil pressure , but i guess the tuner didnt , since oil pressure went to hell at the dyno and on the last pull power drooped by 50hp when it started making boost.

I do have to admit that I was asking for a blown motor. Reason I say that is that I never had the engine measured, I didnt measure the crank or the block, didnt even look at the chart in the service manual to see what bearings I needed. I ordered standard bearings for the crank and standard for the rods. I was driving , let me rephrase that Abusing the car fairly often, running on Utec with a APS550cc tune on a single turbo. I seen 18:1+ A/F lots of times. Took it to redline quite a lot. And I managed to do 7k miles on the engine running like this. Also I was running open thermostat through the winter , Temp on the highway never went above 60*

When I read other peoples threads Im surprised my engine lasted as long as it did.

 

How the **** did that last 7k miles!? lol

 

no idea, i guess utec was pulling timing like crazy, coz the car didnt feel like 400+whp,

once when I was working on some wire ring on the boost controller , I reconnected the WG hoses wrong, so the WG never opened, I over boosted a lil maybe 11-12psi but god damn the car picked up like crazy.

Just to clear things up , on my current build I am making sure everything is done properly this time, and not driving with no tune, also I got a Haltech now, dual wide bands and a daily driver so i dont have to depend on driving the G35

 

A rev-up oil pump can rev to 8400 rpm (exactly what Adam's redline is set to and I personally have taken that motor up there on several occasions) without any hiccups. A higher hp car may add more stress to that equation so I cannot tell you definitively how it will hold up.

Edit: In hindsight I wish I would have had my engine builder disassembles my Nismo oil pump prior to installing in order to compare the internal differences. Sorry guys.

 

so i gotta ask becuase this came up in the shop today.. and sure enough i see you guys are all talking about this recently too.. @CASS... i dont wana be like you man haha! Seriously, i babied my car to 100k w perfect oil change intervals all w mobil 1.. and lost a bearing and an engine.

I am using the rev up pump in my buiild.. its not a concern of doing 8500 rpms.. its a concern of not losing another bearing that costs me another 17k.

Is there ANYTHING that can help with this issue?

 

thats a good question I want to avoid this too, I think someone mentioned in another thread that the clearance tolerance is very low and that it must be in perfect factory specs otherwise it will become a problem. Also someone mentioned that over 600whp the heat generated by the power level just makes it that much more important for the perfect clearances. Also someone threw the idea to use a little extra clearance if you are going for 600++

Don't take my word on this this is what I remember from doing some research.

I would love to have one of the pro VQ builders give his opinion on what causes the oil starvation.

 

i have mentioned this in previous threads before and ill say it again even though i have not blown a single motor. with all the spun bearings im saying its 90% clearances, its only going to be caused by oil starvation, dirt in the bearings, or clearances. i dont believe its oil starvation because way to many people have had good oil pressure when it happens and no signs of oil pump failure till the bearings go(which obviously shavings from the bearings are going to fry the pump.) I also do not believe it is dirt in the bearings, yes mayby one or two but not all of them i refuse to believe all these shops dont ensure everything is clean.

That leaves clearances, and this relates to the community tighter clearances produce a quiter engine but since heat makes metal expand and the more power you make the hotter the engine is its not a very good decision for high power engines. no shop has commented on this yet but i fully believe that the shops are using tight clearances because the owners of the vehicles are not used to high power platforms so if there engine is noisy they will complain and cause heartache and lost sales for that shop. The best way is to run loose clearances(which any competent shop can calculate based on the dimension of the journals what the range needs to be and go for the loose end of the range.) now what this means is the engine WILL be noisy on first start up and the owner MUST allow it to idle until it reachs operating temp, as in not drive it let it warm up first. as the engine is heating up the noise will slowly go away as long as you dont drive it until it hits operating temp it will be fine, also with looser clearances you MUST run thicker oil.

If you dont believe me go ask some gen1 small block chevy guys about high power and tight clearances they are even more prone to spun bearings for this exact reason because the iron block holds more heat then our aluminum. guarantee you they will laugh and say "sure go with tight clearances and above 500 hp ill even build your engine for you.................. every 3 months the thing spins a bearing."

With that being said yes some people have had no issues i guarantee this is because they have looser clearances. either the shop used looser(im guessing hal does this and why i have yet to hear of him have a failed engine) or the persons crank was worn enough that it kept had looser clearances with tight bearings. no shop will ever confirm though because that will give away trade secrets but i know im specifically requesting loose clearances on my bearings because i know its not going to hurt anything if i operate the car properly but ive also had other high output vehicles. they are noisy, annoying, burn oil, smell horrid, and are a hell of alot of fun. you cannot expect lambo numbers from a engine half the size and not account for the increased heat it is the number 1 killer of engines.

 

just noticed your post konrad that is probably some of my previous posts you where reading =D all bearing clearances are retardedly small(feeler guages cant even measure that small and they have some small feeler guages!) but its easy to calculate, ill have to find my engine building thread and bump it to the top for some of the newer people to go through. like i said i have had way to many high performance engines and i know what it takes =P probably woulda had my own shop a few years ago had the loans secured and everything but the place i was trying to buy was an old marathon station and they wouldnt return my calls about buying it.

edit: bumped up my old building an engine thread in the FI section

 

The only difference is the inner gear of the pump. The material is heat treated a little different and machined slightly different.