Flywheels question
12-03-2015, 05:25 AM
#1
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Flywheels question
I have a 2008 350z with the hr motor in it. I drift my car and I was looking for an answer to a question. I have looked everywhere and can't seem to find the answer. I was told that the z's with the hr motor come with a different flywheel. Well I was wondering do they have a dual mass or do they have a single?
12-03-2015, 06:32 AM
#4
might as well since you have it apart. a lightweight one will get the rpm up higher faster which in turn should help you while drifting. while you have the trans down, i would replace the POS internal slave, i had 2 of them go out before i got the zspeed heavy duty one
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12-03-2015, 10:09 AM
#5
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I am just about to put my 08 in the shop for master/slave replacement! Shop says they can't recommend any third party and want to go with OEM Nissan. Sounds like I need to push for the Z1 but damn it's pricey!
12-03-2015, 10:22 AM
#6
http://www.zspeedperformance.com/ZSp...03-ZSP2006.htm
or
http://www.zspeedperformance.com/ZSp...HR-ZSP2006.htm
12-03-2015, 10:51 AM
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Heck yeah. Thank you. I'll do that. I have already replaced 2 slave and a master. Got to love the cap you deal with from a z haha
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12-04-2015, 07:00 AM
#9
i would say the jwt, because i like how you can replace the friction plates... just my liking, others may not. the z1 is even lighter than the jwt
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=478
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=478
12-04-2015, 08:46 PM
#10
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MY350Z.COM
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i would say the jwt, because i like how you can replace the friction plates... just my liking, others may not. the z1 is even lighter than the jwt
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=478
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=478
OK, I'll play bad cop....
First off, the claims of easier/faster acceleration is not just hype. Reduce rotational mass, free the engine to spin it faster. Basic physics.
However, downsides of losing rotational mass include:
- Lower efficiency/mileage (potentially) due to having to keeping your foot into the loud pedal to maintain cruising rpm and speed. (Inertial effect, momentum)
- While the engine works "less hard" on acceleration, lighter mass requires more spin up to get the car moving which in turn, affects pedal feel... Not fun in stop/go traffic.
- Less mass also equates to less dampening effect, which manifests itself in excessive transmission noise (and possible wear on transmission and the clutch assembly itself).
So that all said, am I "against" light weight FWs? Nope, not at all. It's simply a matter of balancing the tradeoffs when selecting your parts. If you can live with the downside tradeoffs in favor of the slight increase in performance, more power to you!
Me personally, BTDT and for a car leaning more towards street driving, I won't go aluminum. I am at 90% street/hwy to the 10% I spend hammering my cars in the mountains....not even close to ME justifying a light FW. But again, that's just me and YMMV.
FWIW, my experience with aluminum/lightweight FW is from my S30 days, behind a turbo'd/IC'd L28 FI motor and maybe it's not as relevant nowadays? Nahhh, I doubt it as I don't think any of the laws of physics have been repealed in the last 40 years. Laff...
Long post but now you have both sides of the story and can make an informed choice and won't have to ever say, "I wish someone had told me it'd be like this!"
There is a reason Nissan delivered our cars with relatively heavy DMFs.... Comfort, smoother operation to satisfy the mass market, lower NVH, longer life.
And just so you know, JWT and Southbend both offer nodular iron single mass FWs that weigh in a few lbs lighter than OEM DMF. (But nothing close to the 13 or so lb aluminum units.) so there's some gain but without all the other "downsides" (to me only of course).
Mic
Last edited by MicVelo; 12-04-2015 at 09:59 PM.
12-05-2015, 07:56 AM
#11
The only appreciable drawback to the JWT aluminum is the increased transmission chatter...street-ability is really not affected otherwise, it isnt very aggressive. IMO engagement feel of the JWT (minus minor differences in engagement point) is almost 100% OEM. I have over 75k on mine.
The benefits to shifting feel from a lightweight flywheel are immense, and for anyone who employs rev match and heel toe shifting it is indispensable.
The benefits to shifting feel from a lightweight flywheel are immense, and for anyone who employs rev match and heel toe shifting it is indispensable.
12-05-2015, 08:35 AM
#12
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The only appreciable drawback to the JWT aluminum is the increased transmission chatter...street-ability is really not affected otherwise, it isnt very aggressive. IMO engagement feel of the JWT (minus minor differences in engagement point) is almost 100% OEM. I have over 75k on mine.
The benefits to shifting feel from a lightweight flywheel are immense, and for anyone who employs rev match and heel toe shifting it is indispensable.
The benefits to shifting feel from a lightweight flywheel are immense, and for anyone who employs rev match and heel toe shifting it is indispensable.
I have an HR JWT flywheel (iron) in the garage that I'll eventually get around to installing along with the JWT clutch and ZSP CSC so we'll see. Maybe I'll try out the lightened one on my '03 based on your assessment to try back to back. (And if I hate it, I'll blame you. Laff!!!!
)No hurry though, neither car needs a clutch, the HR only being done because I hate the FEEL of the stock one.
Mic
12-05-2015, 09:58 AM
#13
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For the love of god do not! I repeat DO NOT!! get the JWT LIGHTWEIGHT FLYWHEEL!!! Worst advice anyone could give!!!! It will have your car sounding like a piece of shyt!!!!!
12-05-2015, 10:43 AM
#16
That's good to know, guitman. Again, my experience with lightened FW is three decades old so maybe I be wrong and I respect your opinions here so...
I have an HR JWT flywheel (iron) in the garage that I'll eventually get around to installing along with the JWT clutch and ZSP CSC so we'll see. Maybe I'll try out the lightened one on my '03 based on your assessment to try back to back. (And if I hate it, I'll blame you. Laff!!!!)
No hurry though, neither car needs a clutch, the HR only being done because I hate the FEEL of the stock one.
Mic
I have an HR JWT flywheel (iron) in the garage that I'll eventually get around to installing along with the JWT clutch and ZSP CSC so we'll see. Maybe I'll try out the lightened one on my '03 based on your assessment to try back to back. (And if I hate it, I'll blame you. Laff!!!!
)No hurry though, neither car needs a clutch, the HR only being done because I hate the FEEL of the stock one.
Mic
12-07-2015, 09:47 AM
#17
Another take to someone who's driven it both ways...
Purchased the car about a year ago completely stock, then the OEM clutch started slipping at around 40k. I would have intermittent clutch pedal drop issues beforehand (likely due to the OEM CSC). My guess is it started leaking in the bellhousing and contaminated the surface of the disk over time. Figured it was as good a time as any to get it all taken care of.
I went with the South Bend Clutch light(er)weight single mass steel flywheel. IIRC it's 20lbs opposed to the OEM DMF's 30ish).
SBC/DXD Stage 2 Endurance w/ Silent disk option. (Feramic/Organic, Multiple puck/full face).
ZSpeed/Wilwood CSC/CMC w/ stainless lines.
First off I like that the Steel flywheels are serviceable- something you lose out on with aluminum.
As for chatter is concerned, idling in neutral, clutch out there is essentially no noise. There is a miniscule amount when first taking off in first gear. In second and third it's possible if you're @ really low RPM's- but I just subconsciously adjusted my driving style to adapt. It's a non-issue.
Clutch feel is a lot firmer, and sometimes more tricky to get away smoothly in city traffic.
Higher gear engagements while moving, however, are vastly improved- under any throttle).
Rev-matching is easier and almost perfect for my area. If I did a lot of mountain driving I would want something a little lighter to aid in deceleration as it would be nice for the engine to spin up a little faster. (A blip, vs. my setup where sometimes it's a blip and a half to get them up where they need to be)
Overall a great middle of the road daily driver/ performance oriented flywheel with some practicality. Though sometimes I can't help but think going a little lighter wouldn't have hurt drive-ability that much.
You can kinda hear the first gear grumble in this vid- not bad.
Purchased the car about a year ago completely stock, then the OEM clutch started slipping at around 40k. I would have intermittent clutch pedal drop issues beforehand (likely due to the OEM CSC). My guess is it started leaking in the bellhousing and contaminated the surface of the disk over time. Figured it was as good a time as any to get it all taken care of.
I went with the South Bend Clutch light(er)weight single mass steel flywheel. IIRC it's 20lbs opposed to the OEM DMF's 30ish).
SBC/DXD Stage 2 Endurance w/ Silent disk option. (Feramic/Organic, Multiple puck/full face).
ZSpeed/Wilwood CSC/CMC w/ stainless lines.
First off I like that the Steel flywheels are serviceable- something you lose out on with aluminum.
As for chatter is concerned, idling in neutral, clutch out there is essentially no noise. There is a miniscule amount when first taking off in first gear. In second and third it's possible if you're @ really low RPM's- but I just subconsciously adjusted my driving style to adapt. It's a non-issue.
Clutch feel is a lot firmer, and sometimes more tricky to get away smoothly in city traffic.
Higher gear engagements while moving, however, are vastly improved- under any throttle).
Rev-matching is easier and almost perfect for my area. If I did a lot of mountain driving I would want something a little lighter to aid in deceleration as it would be nice for the engine to spin up a little faster. (A blip, vs. my setup where sometimes it's a blip and a half to get them up where they need to be)
Overall a great middle of the road daily driver/ performance oriented flywheel with some practicality. Though sometimes I can't help but think going a little lighter wouldn't have hurt drive-ability that much.
You can kinda hear the first gear grumble in this vid- not bad.
Last edited by n0smoke; 12-07-2015 at 09:49 AM.
12-08-2015, 07:36 AM
#18
Registered User
That's good to know, guitman. Again, my experience with lightened FW is three decades old so maybe I be wrong and I respect your opinions here so...
I have an HR JWT flywheel (iron) in the garage that I'll eventually get around to installing along with the JWT clutch and ZSP CSC so we'll see. Maybe I'll try out the lightened one on my '03 based on your assessment to try back to back. (And if I hate it, I'll blame you. Laff!!!!)
No hurry though, neither car needs a clutch, the HR only being done because I hate the FEEL of the stock one.
Mic
I have an HR JWT flywheel (iron) in the garage that I'll eventually get around to installing along with the JWT clutch and ZSP CSC so we'll see. Maybe I'll try out the lightened one on my '03 based on your assessment to try back to back. (And if I hate it, I'll blame you. Laff!!!!
)No hurry though, neither car needs a clutch, the HR only being done because I hate the FEEL of the stock one.
Mic
12-08-2015, 08:11 AM
#19
350Z/370Z Tech Moderator
MY350Z.COM
MY350Z.COM
Besides, no HP gain, just maximizing what's already there.
Seriously though, my exp with light FW's came on old S30 and it was truly NOT a good experience on street driven car. (And similarly, that was a situation where the "old guys" - meaning "experienced", laff - advised me against it.)
But that said, am I willing to try one out now on Z33 Oh Three to see if things have changed? Sure, maybe. If/when time comes for clutcho on it, I'll consider it. But I like the feel of my pedal under simultaneous three-pedal operation as it is; and old dog may not like new trix.
12-08-2015, 08:43 AM
#20
Registered User
Because #drivingschool
Besides, no HP gain, just maximizing what's already there.
Seriously though, my exp with light FW's came on old S30 and it was truly NOT a good experience on street driven car. (And similarly, that was a situation where the "old guys" - meaning "experienced", laff - advised me against it.)
But that said, am I willing to try one out now on Z33 Oh Three to see if things have changed? Sure, maybe. If/when time comes for clutcho on it, I'll consider it. But I like the feel of my pedal under simultaneous three-pedal operation as it is; and old dog may not like new trix.
Besides, no HP gain, just maximizing what's already there.
Seriously though, my exp with light FW's came on old S30 and it was truly NOT a good experience on street driven car. (And similarly, that was a situation where the "old guys" - meaning "experienced", laff - advised me against it.)
But that said, am I willing to try one out now on Z33 Oh Three to see if things have changed? Sure, maybe. If/when time comes for clutcho on it, I'll consider it. But I like the feel of my pedal under simultaneous three-pedal operation as it is; and old dog may not like new trix.
No one talks about crank hp. Its all about wheel hp and a light fly helps to see higher WHEEL hp. Counts as a gain haha.
I have mix feeling with mine. I like how responsive it is. But i also like the stock better. Its a love hate thing haha