PROOF!!! Normally aspirated mods do almost nothing!!!!!
04-14-2004, 07:44 PM
#101
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Originally posted by flynnibus
Higher Octane gas will not give you more power.. higher octane allows you to run your engine with more aggressive settings.. more timing, more boost, etc.
Unless you car is being held back due to detonation.. higher octane will not do you anything.
Higher Octane gas will not give you more power.. higher octane allows you to run your engine with more aggressive settings.. more timing, more boost, etc.
Unless you car is being held back due to detonation.. higher octane will not do you anything.
04-14-2004, 08:01 PM
#102
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Originally posted by GY-Z
wat u mean by held back due to detonation?
wat u mean by held back due to detonation?
04-14-2004, 08:50 PM
#103
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************Either way, you are still trying to get the car to 100% efficiency, and with alot of Nismo parts put together (regardless of price) can get there just as easily as any other parts. Nismo sells products just like anyone else, it is your choice to buy them or not. ******************
i agree in the end its about choice. and im gonna be honest i buy nismo for the name. i honestly would take nismo over a similiar product that proved to have a little better results. for instance the nismo exaust has proven gains are on the low side compared to other exaust out there but i still bought it. i have always been a fan of JGTC racing and their other nismo endeavours. plus i think its good a car company not only has a racing division but makes these available to the public. now i agree with you guys that have issues with the price. but thats why good people like performance nissan exist to make them competitive with anything else out there price wise.
so are most of us in agreement that the SCC article was biased? or is that still a matter of heated debate?
i agree in the end its about choice. and im gonna be honest i buy nismo for the name. i honestly would take nismo over a similiar product that proved to have a little better results. for instance the nismo exaust has proven gains are on the low side compared to other exaust out there but i still bought it. i have always been a fan of JGTC racing and their other nismo endeavours. plus i think its good a car company not only has a racing division but makes these available to the public. now i agree with you guys that have issues with the price. but thats why good people like performance nissan exist to make them competitive with anything else out there price wise.
so are most of us in agreement that the SCC article was biased? or is that still a matter of heated debate?
04-14-2004, 09:55 PM
#104
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Originally posted by Jason@Performance
changing the crank pulley adds to the peak horse power and across the full RPM range...
changing the flywheel (which I have the lightest fly and smallest clutch for this car) definatly changes the acceleration HP curve but does not add peak horse power...
I bet a car with the TILTON flywheel and clutch ONLY
will beat a car with intake / headers / cams / exhaust on atrack...
changing the crank pulley adds to the peak horse power and across the full RPM range...
changing the flywheel (which I have the lightest fly and smallest clutch for this car) definatly changes the acceleration HP curve but does not add peak horse power...
I bet a car with the TILTON flywheel and clutch ONLY
will beat a car with intake / headers / cams / exhaust on atrack...
04-15-2004, 05:30 AM
#105
Originally posted by 350trackz
Alberto, where were you when I was building my car ? Dang, with the infinite knowledge you seem to have, you could have made my car fast !!!
Anyway, you seem to know the mod business better than those of us that searched out our own parts. Maybe you should write a book or an all encompassing email so the noobs out there can just buy your shopping list of parts ... still you don't mpress me as I know of a couple of cars making 262rwhp with 4 bolt ons. Again I mention, your mods (or some of them) must not be as great as you think they are. BUT, since you are so proud of those 4 bolt ons, why don't you list them out for us ?
Alberto, where were you when I was building my car ? Dang, with the infinite knowledge you seem to have, you could have made my car fast !!!
Anyway, you seem to know the mod business better than those of us that searched out our own parts. Maybe you should write a book or an all encompassing email so the noobs out there can just buy your shopping list of parts ... still you don't mpress me as I know of a couple of cars making 262rwhp with 4 bolt ons. Again I mention, your mods (or some of them) must not be as great as you think they are. BUT, since you are so proud of those 4 bolt ons, why don't you list them out for us ?
04-15-2004, 06:18 AM
#106
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Originally posted by Alberto
This is what happens when theres to many smart a$$es in one thread.....I did hit 263 whp on a std correction factor, so I could put that comment you made down, but I go by SAE standards. When people post dyno numbers online many dont even know what correction factor their shop gave them the numbers with, and as you know correction factor, even the smoothing used can show a rather large difference in numbers. Pop-charger, test-pipes, Injen SES, and the original ugly Crawford plenum, which I do like now, I doubted it at first. Just added a crank pulley, prolly gonna dyno saturday. I'm trying to hit 260rwp before i do headers with an SAE correction. And as far as you telling me to come to Dallas, I could tell you to come to B-more and I could have 20 cars own you, 1/4, auto-x or roadcourse, whats the point in making a comment like that? BTW any 1/4 times out of your car? Dont you put down 280 rwhp, with your JWT cams...
This is what happens when theres to many smart a$$es in one thread.....I did hit 263 whp on a std correction factor, so I could put that comment you made down, but I go by SAE standards. When people post dyno numbers online many dont even know what correction factor their shop gave them the numbers with, and as you know correction factor, even the smoothing used can show a rather large difference in numbers. Pop-charger, test-pipes, Injen SES, and the original ugly Crawford plenum, which I do like now, I doubted it at first. Just added a crank pulley, prolly gonna dyno saturday. I'm trying to hit 260rwp before i do headers with an SAE correction. And as far as you telling me to come to Dallas, I could tell you to come to B-more and I could have 20 cars own you, 1/4, auto-x or roadcourse, whats the point in making a comment like that? BTW any 1/4 times out of your car? Dont you put down 280 rwhp, with your JWT cams...
04-15-2004, 08:40 AM
#107
I havent posted the actual slips or dynos, I dont have anywhere to host them. I have had 1 big thread on my latest dyno numbers and findings over the AEM vs Pop-charger debate. And if you go to the drag section of the boards I have posted my times with just a drop-in when I first got the car and recently with mods. If you would like I can send you dyno's, and slips I am not a liar, just trying to help people choose the right parts, and figuring out what works together and what doesnt.
04-15-2004, 09:07 AM
#108
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Speedracer,
Did you happen to read the part of the article that stated that all dyno and performance tests were done on 91 octane, and NISMO's claimed 27 hp for the mods was on 93? Also, a different Track model Z was used as a baseline not the same car. As many of us know there can be a large variance in output from engine to engine. SCC is usually pretty spot on with their articles, but just the fact the 2 different cars were used as baseline and modded makes me not fully trust the results.
Now the quarter times only verified that the 10hp doesn't make much of a difference except in the trap speeds. You are correct in saying that FI is the only sure fire way to make our cars a lot faster. But some of us on this forum don't have the funds, the knowledge or want to risk blowing our engines on a bad tune by SCing or turboing our cars.
Please try not to discourage others on this forum from modding their cars by claiming absolute truth from one magazine article.
Did you happen to read the part of the article that stated that all dyno and performance tests were done on 91 octane, and NISMO's claimed 27 hp for the mods was on 93? Also, a different Track model Z was used as a baseline not the same car. As many of us know there can be a large variance in output from engine to engine. SCC is usually pretty spot on with their articles, but just the fact the 2 different cars were used as baseline and modded makes me not fully trust the results.
Now the quarter times only verified that the 10hp doesn't make much of a difference except in the trap speeds. You are correct in saying that FI is the only sure fire way to make our cars a lot faster. But some of us on this forum don't have the funds, the knowledge or want to risk blowing our engines on a bad tune by SCing or turboing our cars.
Please try not to discourage others on this forum from modding their cars by claiming absolute truth from one magazine article.
04-15-2004, 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Alberto
This is what happens when theres to many smart a$$es in one thread.....I did hit 263 whp on a std correction factor, so I could put that comment you made down, but I go by SAE standards. When people post dyno numbers online many dont even know what correction factor their shop gave them the numbers with, and as you know correction factor, even the smoothing used can show a rather large difference in numbers. Pop-charger, test-pipes, Injen SES, and the original ugly Crawford plenum, which I do like now, I doubted it at first. Just added a crank pulley, prolly gonna dyno saturday. I'm trying to hit 260rwp before i do headers with an SAE correction. And as far as you telling me to come to Dallas, I could tell you to come to B-more and I could have 20 cars own you, 1/4, auto-x or roadcourse, whats the point in making a comment like that? BTW any 1/4 times out of your car? Dont you put down 280 rwhp, with your JWT cams...
This is what happens when theres to many smart a$$es in one thread.....I did hit 263 whp on a std correction factor, so I could put that comment you made down, but I go by SAE standards. When people post dyno numbers online many dont even know what correction factor their shop gave them the numbers with, and as you know correction factor, even the smoothing used can show a rather large difference in numbers. Pop-charger, test-pipes, Injen SES, and the original ugly Crawford plenum, which I do like now, I doubted it at first. Just added a crank pulley, prolly gonna dyno saturday. I'm trying to hit 260rwp before i do headers with an SAE correction. And as far as you telling me to come to Dallas, I could tell you to come to B-more and I could have 20 cars own you, 1/4, auto-x or roadcourse, whats the point in making a comment like that? BTW any 1/4 times out of your car? Dont you put down 280 rwhp, with your JWT cams...
As for being a smart a$$, d@mn right I am ... especially when I find the omnicient ones like you !!!
I agree with Tim ... don't ask for mine until you are ready to post yours (for the record, my dyno has been posted already). As for 1/4 times, haven't run yet. Lived in Nashville where to go to the track you have to go to Bowling Green. Now in Dallas, I am sure I will visit the track regularly.
I again agree with Tim, I am not trying to be too much of an a$$. But you came on and said Nismo is cr@p. JWT made the original grind for Nismo cams ... how ar ethey cr@p ? Nismo exhaust is great for the torque over hp driver (bit pricey though). Yes, popcharger is best intake for now, suspension is way better than stock and get rid of feathering, seats look to be pretty nice ... so how can it all suck ?
04-15-2004, 10:34 AM
#110
I guess I have to clarify for the people that dont get it. It has been said by other people in this thread, and many other times on the boards, but I'll say it again, and finish it how I started it.
Nismo, does make good products, when I say this I mean the headers, and their cams, I also do like their front end. BUT and its a big BUT, for the money, I would rather get my parts elsewhere, from companies and Z tuners like JIC, Crawford, JWT and Injen. The hp per $$ that Nismo offers does not attract me. I am not the know all tell all that you are trying to make me out to be. I simply believe Nismo is overpriced, and that there are better alternatives out there. $1200 for a header? No thanks I'll get some Stillen headers that will make just as much power if not more, for hundreds less. So thats it, can you see my point now? If you have $280 to spend and you want to spend it on an intake (Nismo) that will add no hp, possibly lose some (like me AEM did) then spend it. I'll be sure to wave as I fly by you..... If my opinions upset you or make you feel insecure to the point where people have to personally attack me, then please stop wasting forum space, and PM me. Thats it, I'm done with this Just for the record, if I had unlimited $$$ I still wouldnt get Nismo headers or cams, which are the only products I think are good-besides the price. At the end of the day you are paying for the name more than anything.
Nismo
Nismo, does make good products, when I say this I mean the headers, and their cams, I also do like their front end. BUT and its a big BUT, for the money, I would rather get my parts elsewhere, from companies and Z tuners like JIC, Crawford, JWT and Injen. The hp per $$ that Nismo offers does not attract me. I am not the know all tell all that you are trying to make me out to be. I simply believe Nismo is overpriced, and that there are better alternatives out there. $1200 for a header? No thanks I'll get some Stillen headers that will make just as much power if not more, for hundreds less. So thats it, can you see my point now? If you have $280 to spend and you want to spend it on an intake (Nismo) that will add no hp, possibly lose some (like me AEM did) then spend it. I'll be sure to wave as I fly by you..... If my opinions upset you or make you feel insecure to the point where people have to personally attack me, then please stop wasting forum space, and PM me. Thats it, I'm done with this
Just for the record, if I had unlimited $$$ I still wouldnt get Nismo headers or cams, which are the only products I think are good-besides the price. At the end of the day you are paying for the name more than anything.Nismo
Last edited by Alberto; 04-15-2004 at 10:38 AM.
04-15-2004, 10:44 AM
#111
Originally posted by 350trackz
still you don't mpress me as I know of a couple of cars making 262rwhp with 4 bolt ons.
still you don't mpress me as I know of a couple of cars making 262rwhp with 4 bolt ons.
READ what I said ... 262rwhp SAE corrected !!!
Last edited by Alberto; 04-15-2004 at 10:47 AM.
04-15-2004, 11:22 AM
#112
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Re: PROOF!!! Normally aspirated mods do almost nothing!!!!!
Originally posted by Speedracer
Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but for those of you who think all those filters and fancy pieces of tubing are doing anything other than burning a hole in your wallet, here's some proof:
The May issue of Sport Compact Car tests a stock Track Z, a NISMO S-tune Z, and a NISMO R-tune Z. The R-tune had all the available intake, exhaust, engine, brake, and driveline mods +body kit+suspension, wheels and tires. The S-tune was simply the cat-back exhaust, suspension, wheels and tires.
The result.....The $14,000 in mods, not including labor for install on the R-tune car, resulted in a whopping 10hp gain on the dyno. It took an amazing 0.1 seconds off the 0-60 time.
What was meaningful were the gains provided by the suspension, wheels and tires. The R ad S tune cars turned 0.98g on the skidpad vs. 0.93g on the stock Track model.
The Brembo brake sytem on the Track also only took off 3 feet in the 60-0 stopping distance compared to the standard Z braking system. The Nismo pads with the Brembos actually produced the worst braking distances.
Really....the Z motor is in a pretty high state of tune already. 82hp/liter in NA form is pretty good. This equals the output of the Audi S4 V8. Only the BMW M3 and Honda S2000 have higher specific outputs among non-exotics. Remember, this same engine in it's "average" state of tune puts out 240hp in the Altima. Nissan has already squeezed out another 47 for the stock Z. THERE AIN'T MUCH MORE LEFT IN THERE!!!!!
So.....save your money or put it where it will make a difference. Clearly suspension, wheels, tires can increase the handling limits of the car. Body kits can give you a unique look. Audio system upgrades are a clear benefit. But the thousands put into normally aspirated engine mods are a waste....totally. If you have $2000 to spend on hp enhancing mods, do a state of the art wet nitrous system complete with augmented fuel flow, etc. You'll get 50-100 hp safely. If you want real gains, forced induction has been and will always be the ONLY way to go. 20 years of modding cars has taught me this and it stands true today. Now.....if you are modding just for the sake of modding, and accept it as such...that is a different story entirely. Just don't fool yourself.
Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but for those of you who think all those filters and fancy pieces of tubing are doing anything other than burning a hole in your wallet, here's some proof:
The May issue of Sport Compact Car tests a stock Track Z, a NISMO S-tune Z, and a NISMO R-tune Z. The R-tune had all the available intake, exhaust, engine, brake, and driveline mods +body kit+suspension, wheels and tires. The S-tune was simply the cat-back exhaust, suspension, wheels and tires.
The result.....The $14,000 in mods, not including labor for install on the R-tune car, resulted in a whopping 10hp gain on the dyno. It took an amazing 0.1 seconds off the 0-60 time.
What was meaningful were the gains provided by the suspension, wheels and tires. The R ad S tune cars turned 0.98g on the skidpad vs. 0.93g on the stock Track model.
The Brembo brake sytem on the Track also only took off 3 feet in the 60-0 stopping distance compared to the standard Z braking system. The Nismo pads with the Brembos actually produced the worst braking distances.
Really....the Z motor is in a pretty high state of tune already. 82hp/liter in NA form is pretty good. This equals the output of the Audi S4 V8. Only the BMW M3 and Honda S2000 have higher specific outputs among non-exotics. Remember, this same engine in it's "average" state of tune puts out 240hp in the Altima. Nissan has already squeezed out another 47 for the stock Z. THERE AIN'T MUCH MORE LEFT IN THERE!!!!!
So.....save your money or put it where it will make a difference. Clearly suspension, wheels, tires can increase the handling limits of the car. Body kits can give you a unique look. Audio system upgrades are a clear benefit. But the thousands put into normally aspirated engine mods are a waste....totally. If you have $2000 to spend on hp enhancing mods, do a state of the art wet nitrous system complete with augmented fuel flow, etc. You'll get 50-100 hp safely. If you want real gains, forced induction has been and will always be the ONLY way to go. 20 years of modding cars has taught me this and it stands true today. Now.....if you are modding just for the sake of modding, and accept it as such...that is a different story entirely. Just don't fool yourself.
Last edited by Black Batmobile; 04-15-2004 at 11:27 AM.
04-15-2004, 11:23 AM
#113
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Originally posted by Alberto
...then you respond with
This just proves your lack of intelligence as you dont even know what you wrote. I asked you if that was SAE corrected you answer me with an over exagerrated !!! yet look at your original post, did you state it was SAE corrected? No you didnt, now go take your medicine and calm down...before you go posting gay stuff like !!!!!
...then you respond with
This just proves your lack of intelligence as you dont even know what you wrote. I asked you if that was SAE corrected you answer me with an over exagerrated !!! yet look at your original post, did you state it was SAE corrected? No you didnt, now go take your medicine and calm down...before you go posting gay stuff like !!!!!
What it proves is YOUR lack of reading ability !!! And I'm posting gay stuff ... READ !!!
04-15-2004, 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by 350trackz
UMM hello ... if you are going to quote me, quote the ENTIRE line ... it said "I have seen cars with 4 bolt ons (with factory exhaust) hit 262rwhp sae corrected ... so now what ?" so YES I did ... page 4 if you want to go RE-READ it !!!
What it proves is YOUR lack of reading ability !!! And I'm posting gay stuff ... READ !!!
UMM hello ... if you are going to quote me, quote the ENTIRE line ... it said "I have seen cars with 4 bolt ons (with factory exhaust) hit 262rwhp sae corrected ... so now what ?" so YES I did ... page 4 if you want to go RE-READ it !!!
What it proves is YOUR lack of reading ability !!! And I'm posting gay stuff ... READ !!!
04-15-2004, 11:44 AM
#116
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Originally posted by triso07
What exactly is Dyno testing, and where can you go to have this done ?
What exactly is Dyno testing, and where can you go to have this done ?
04-15-2004, 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Black Batmobile
It test to see if your car has caught any dynos from unprotected driving. We'll you can go to any street corner in the city and catch a dyno, but make sure the cops don't see you hooking up the dynos.
It test to see if your car has caught any dynos from unprotected driving. We'll you can go to any street corner in the city and catch a dyno, but make sure the cops don't see you hooking up the dynos.
04-15-2004, 02:09 PM
#118
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Originally posted by triso07
What exactly is Dyno testing, and where can you go to have this done ?
What exactly is Dyno testing, and where can you go to have this done ?
Dyno testing is where they put your car on a large rotating drum. Your rear wheels spin this drum and a computer records how quickly the drum (of a fixed mass) accelerates. They also attach a probe to the spark plug wire to determine the RPM's and a air/fuel probe in the tailpipe to determine the air/fuel ratio.
By measureing how fast the drum accelerates, the computer can determine the TQ produced at a certain RPM. HP is determined from TQ via the equation: HP = TQ *RPM/5252.
Many local speed shops have dynos in their shop.
The dyno graph looks like one in my sig....
I love that smilie...
05-30-2004, 11:51 PM
#120
Speedracer, please reply to Nisseng. I'm so loving this thread. I am an infant compared to you two obviously experienced modders, so when i rec'd my monthly SCC and read that article, I was frankly depressed. But I decided to try some minor mods just for modding's sake. Having read this thread, I now feel better because I never realized just how limited the Nismo mods actually were in that article, and I always felt/sensed/perceived that the few mods I have made (popcharger and grounding kit) have each improved my engine's performance noticeably, and for not a lot of money.
Oops, sorry, I didn't realize that the thread progressed past the 4/12 date I responded to.
Oops, sorry, I didn't realize that the thread progressed past the 4/12 date I responded to.
Last edited by Z BOY; 05-30-2004 at 11:59 PM.