Speedracer

Sorry to burst everyones bubble, but for those of you who think all those filters and fancy pieces of tubing are doing anything other than burning a hole in your wallet, here's some proof:

The May issue of Sport Compact Car tests a stock Track Z, a NISMO S-tune Z, and a NISMO R-tune Z. The R-tune had all the available intake, exhaust, engine, brake, and driveline mods +body kit+suspension, wheels and tires. The S-tune was simply the cat-back exhaust, suspension, wheels and tires.

The result.....The $14,000 in mods, not including labor for install on the R-tune car, resulted in a whopping 10hp gain on the dyno. It took an amazing 0.1 seconds off the 0-60 time.

What was meaningful were the gains provided by the suspension, wheels and tires. The R ad S tune cars turned 0.98g on the skidpad vs. 0.93g on the stock Track model.

The Brembo brake sytem on the Track also only took off 3 feet in the 60-0 stopping distance compared to the standard Z braking system. The Nismo pads with the Brembos actually produced the worst braking distances.

Really....the Z motor is in a pretty high state of tune already. 82hp/liter in NA form is pretty good. This equals the output of the Audi S4 V8. Only the BMW M3 and Honda S2000 have higher specific outputs among non-exotics. Remember, this same engine in it's "average" state of tune puts out 240hp in the Altima. Nissan has already squeezed out another 47 for the stock Z. THERE AIN'T MUCH MORE LEFT IN THERE!!!!!

So.....save your money or put it where it will make a difference. Clearly suspension, wheels, tires can increase the handling limits of the car. Body kits can give you a unique look. Audio system upgrades are a clear benefit. But the thousands put into normally aspirated engine mods are a waste....totally. If you have $2000 to spend on hp enhancing mods, do a state of the art wet nitrous system complete with augmented fuel flow, etc. You'll get 50-100 hp safely. If you want real gains, forced induction has been and will always be the ONLY way to go. 20 years of modding cars has taught me this and it stands true today. Now.....if you are modding just for the sake of modding, and accept it as such...that is a different story entirely. Just don't fool yourself.

pLacebo

Wow I'm convinced- if SCC says it, it must be true! I will give them the fact that it is harder to squeeze additional power out of this car- but there are plenty of members on this board (including myself that are making some additional power). Don't get me wrong, Nissan did do a good job of squeezing HP out of this engine. But this is not a corked up Econo-engine begging for air.

You just have to know which bolt ons to add. I think it's been fairly well established on this board over the last year that CAI's do little for this car (1-5hp). Same with exhausts (5-8hp). The bolt on mods that make the biggest difference are plenums and high flow cats. UR pulleys are nice as well. Since Nismo doesn't offer Plenum, cats, pulleys it is understandable that they made little HP.

Take everything you read in SCC with a grain of salt.

Melissa

funny thing is it was nowhere near 12k in engine mods for one....
and for 2 think what you want....dynos and track slips dont lie....
people are getting significant gains on the dyno and at the track....

i would think the guys at performance nissan that race n/a
and the handfull of guys that are dynoing at 300whp n/a and the guys at crawford would feel the same way as me

Melissa

granted its not a chevy small block where 1500 gets you 50 hp....its a nicely tuned 6cyl that is alot harder to get big power out of....but the numbers dont lie....
i for one am not going to listen to a mag that goes against what all the other mags and engine builder are saying

Dissolved

I heard about this test in the mag. Total BS. I can tell you just the popcharger decreased my 0-60time and 1/4mile time a little on Gtech Pro.

1/4mile went from a consistent 14.3@105 (reproduced about 6 times) to a 14.1@104mph (reproduced twice).

0-60 went from a VERy consistent 5.77 to a 5.65.

Oh and I had traction issues. Going to get exhaust soon and re-test. Same road, same launch, same ambient temperature, same gtech, same traction. Everything was the same in the tests.

zuff

That article doesn't take into consideration all the good parts manufacturers out there producing race spec products for us modders.

Try a stock 350z against one that has a Kinetic plenum, cats, cusco suspension, pod style filter and a good exhaust. Also I'd like to see how the stock brakes fair against the Brembo after 5-6 laps of a track day.

anyway... i think it's true Nismo isn't all that it's said to be. But don't put all NA mod shops in there with them.

S12 driver

As it was stated in SCC. The knock sensor is retarding timing because of the 91 octane, mix some 100 octane fuel you will see some real gains.

Diesel350

iTrader: (6)

Nismo performance mods are garbage in my opinion. Only thing I would even consider buying from Nismo would be suspension.

There are many NA mods for the Z that DO make some significant difference in power such as Flywheel/clutch, Pulley's, Cams, cats, Plenum, and headers.

Speedracer

okay...I'll give you this......I am new to the Z. So.....how much hp from the plenum? 8? 10?. Cats will give 5? Maybe 12 together? I would really love to see the dyno graphs and equipment list from those making 300whp. Also...What dyno. My last car dyno'd 276 wheel hp on one dyno, 307 wheel hp on another, and 334 on yet another. Same car, same equipment, different dynos and a 58hp difference in measured wheel hp. Trust me....I am in no way biased to any product. In fact, if there was a way to extract real NA power gains from the Z, I'm all for it.

However, any less than a 25-30hp gain at this overall power level is not going to be seen or felt. If you are serious into the drag racing scene where 0.05 sec may matter, you better be making WAY more power than 300. A track car is different. With a skilled driver, a little hp gain can give you the edge if you know how to use the power band.

Now...there is one area in which some of these mods could make a real difference, but I have yet to see it addressed. How about some ECU programming that seriously advances the timing to work with 100 octane fuel and some competition heads that increase compression ratio. That, however, would also probably not be street legal, and I am speaking in general of street legal mods.

For the "street modder", however, I just want to keep people based in reality. If $5k in mods is worth a tenth off your time, it's your money. Like I said, if you are modding just for the enjoyment of doing something different on your car, great. Enjoy it. Just don't fool yourself.

Finally......I realize SCC isn't the be-all and end-all of anything, but, as a matter of principle, I will believe an independant source rather than any claim from a manufacturer.

TheBigShow

iTrader: (2)

wow; never heard of this article .

lowrider

iTrader: (3)

One Work - BALONEY!

Lou

3rdpower

tell you what.

You get in your NA non-modded ride and I'll get in my Z modded ride. Let's see who get's their *** whipped...

350zbiturbo

iTrader: (1)

i have to say that mods do give you horsepower and its the main fact that i dont have a 350 but the brembos i can gaurantee will give way less brake fade on a track then the stock calipers ever will so w/e all i have to say is keep modding people and when i get mine i will start the modd craziness also lol

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

good point on the brakes

As for NA Power - I ahve spent WAy less than half of that, and the hp speaks for itself

Speedracer

Never said I wasn't into modding. I LOVE modding cars. It is a true passion of mine. I just want to know, on this car, what makes a real difference. Once again...I AM NEW TO THE Z!!! In my past experience with OTHER CARS, all these NA gadgets did crap!!! Apparently NISMO isn't the way to go. Currently.... my own plans include Greddy TT with IC, Borla or Stillen Cat-back, Crawford or Kinetix cats, Nismo flywheel (too light and you lose street smoothness) Spec Stage 2 clutch, Tein coilovers, Stoptech 13'' fronts with stock rears on stoptech rear slotted rotors with Axxis pads. Nismo wheels with S-03's. Working with my tuning shop I hope to be able to work about 6-7 psi boost on stock internals. This will all come together this fall or early winter as I don't want to give up spring and summer time in the shop enjoying my new roadster. And as I said....I would love to see some real INDEPEDENT dyno data on these NA mods, but not from the manufacturer or a shop that sells them.

little_rod

Hp per $, you will almost always come out ahead with FI, that is well known. But to say that you get nowhere N/A is going a bit far. You can gain power with alot of N/A mods, but you will pay a pretty penny for those gains, especially the gains you can actually feel.

ElvishasaZ

there ya go..well said !

nisseng

Have you considered the following diehard modifications as a Naturally aspirated enthusiast. Use a big bore and big stroke kit from AEBS, how does 4.3 Liter sound. Also, bigger intake and exhaust valves will up the flow in your engine. Just don't forget about the nickel aluminum valve seats and guides that lowers the coefficient of friction and increases heat transfer. For further protection, use dual valve springs to prevent the nasty valve floating. Also, use camshafts that utilize genuine Nissan camshaft cores such as Tomei. Aftermarket camshafts that use the chilled cast cores are known to crack and break. Offcourse, once you're at it , recontour , and reshape ( I do not like to use the words port and polish ) the intake and exhaust ports for even higher flow. So, depending on how serious you really are, the doors are wide open. 500 horsepower naturally aspirated can easily be attained. Of all the motors in the 6 cylinder category, the VQ 35 is the most superior. Of all the v-6 engines, Nissan has the best crankshaft designs. The Honda NSX, the Toyota v-6 and the
GM v-6 have crankshaft that crank between the first two connecting rod journals because they are only around 0.140 inches thick. The Nissan VQ 35 on the other hand is 0.710 inches thick. Just as the NSX, the Nissan VQ35 is constructed from a high pressure die cast block, similar to forging. The Nissan cylinderhead has high flowing contours and it allows you to run big valves due to shallow included valve angles. Since you can run 4 inch pistons with the AEBS sleeves, it should not be taken lightly since this has been the privilege only reserved for domestic engines such as the small block Chevrolet's. The Toyota 2JZ's have cylinder heads that only flow mediocre numbers and due to their long crankshafts, they twists quite a bit between number one and number six cylinders. A v-6 configuration has the shortest crankshaft, thus the least amount of twisting. Furthermore, the crankshaft caps utilize four bolts mains, thus Nissan had performance in mind. Consider that the all motor 2.00 liter B-series honda's who's head do not flow well makes 325 horsepower at the flywheel. If you are really serious, call AEBS, they have all the parts mentioned above. Then again, if you are not really serious about horspower gains naturally aspirated, just ignore all of the above.

Nisseng