SpeedworksT78

Is anyone out there doing any sleeving for these blocks, i.e. Golden Eagle, Darton, Dart, etc. It seems that's where the next big R&D investment needs to be for this car........just curious.

blue_z2003

how much does it normally cost to sleve an engine...

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

AEBS for sure.....possibly Darton

G3po

iTrader: (8)

Sleeveing Cost , can be done fror $1800-$2200 depending upon shop and sleeves used.

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

Weston Machine in NJ can sleve the VQ35

enhanced250

philthy have you had or know someone who has had their engine sleeved? also how much and the benefits?

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

I just dropped off my block at Weston today... The owner, Charlie, is a great guy and very knowledgeable.

http://www.westonmachine.com/

While at Weston, there were 100's of block in their shop that they were working on, everything from B18’s to LS1’s to top fuel motors...

Many may not know, but Weston is the shop that has done all of the sleeving and liners for Performance Motorsports, among dozens of other race teams.

Weston had a dozen or so VQ35 blocks that they were working on. I got to see first hand complete blocks with AEBS sleeves, Darton MID Sleeves, and the Darton liners that were used in the Performance Motorsports 1400hp block.

Charlie gave me the complete low down on what he thought were the pros and cons of each, and if you're only looking for 550-600 whp, the liners are probably the way to go. I was going that route, but availability for the Darton MID sleeves is immediate, and the liners would set me back 6-8 weeks... Seeing the AEBS sleeves in person in a block vs. the Darton MID sleeves really is telling... The AEBS sleeves really do restrict cooling and the Darton’s looks like a much better design for street applications.

I'm going to work with Weston on a question and answer session and post their knowledge - please post a list of questions that you want me to ask them...

aalzuhair

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info, could you please ask them for more info on the pros and cons of both the AEBS and the Darton sleeves. I'm looking for 600 plus street engine.

Thanks,
Az

Landbarger

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, that's very interesting, I would also be interested in hearing a more in-depth explanation of the pros and cons between AEBS and Darton, also, if one was getting the 4.3L stroking with the engine sleeving, could you use the Darton sleeves with any type of stroking...if the AEBS kit is bored, i can't imagine how the Darton's could do the same job. On a related note, could these guys do the JUN 3.8L stroker install, and does that kit come with new sleeves, or would you need to buy sleeves on top of the stroker kit? Thanks, and I apologize for my ignorance, perhaps one day i'll be able to help out the less-knowledgable with there questions...

Brandon@Forged

IMO it'd be best to go with AEBS sleeves if you are getting their stroker kit anyway. The JUN stroker kit does not have any aftermarket sleeves in the kit. So I imagine you could use any sleeves as long as they are the right bore.

ins

im kind of a newbie.. can u explain sleeving/stroking and 4.3kits and what not.. i kinda kno wut it is.. but no lol.. anyone?

Brandon@Forged

Good article:
http://www.vqpower.com/v2/article105.html


OEM block:



AEBS Sleeve pictures:
http://cj-motorsports.com/products/aebs.htm






Darton Sleeve pictures:

drift350

sleeving = removing original cylinder sleeves and replacing with a more durable metal liner and normally a support brace system at the tops of the cylinders to prevent "sleeve shimmy", the distortion of the unsupported OEM sleeve during increased torque events.


stroking = increasing the stroke of a motor to increase it's displacement and therefore, power output. basically, it allows the piston to travel a longer distance per stroke, allowing more room for more air and fuel. this is done by increasing the diameter of the crank's rotation and shortening of the pistons' connecting rods.


4.3 stroker = AEBS created a stroker kit that includes pretty much all you need to increase the displacement of your motor by way of stroking. this kit will increase the displacement to 4.3 litres, compared to the stock motor's 3.5 litre displacement.



this is just in case you dont want to read the long article posted, but i suggest you do cuz it's a good read. and dont limit yourself just to Nissan stuff... otto cycle motors are all the same in theory, and similar in execution. so the GM and Ford guys are doing the same stuff, but with a difference in terminology and style of parts.

Brandon@Forged

Good explanation.

JUN = 3.8
AEBS = 4.3
Just to make sure no one gets confused.

drift350

oops. i'll edit that.

ins

ahh i understand.. i will read the article and thank you for your answer.. what kind of power do you gain from this? can you rev higher? how much does this sort of thing cost? can u still use forced induction, ECU.. ect..

ins

i read the article and answerd soem of my questions.. but can you still you a supercharger like a stillen stage2 or somthing? i wonder if there warrenty would still hold... how much higher does the engine rev? realistic power gains? anything you gota do b4 you do this so you dont screw anything up? cost/labor? any cons to doing this?

drift350

if this is directed at stroker kits, then your answer is:

you get more power, especially torque, and at lower rpm's.
you can still use forced induction.

but


your redline will be lowered in most cases as the increased rotational diameter of the stroker crank combined with shorter rods compared to the stock setup increases lateral loading of the pistons as the piston moves from TDC to BDC and vice versa. the lateral loading can force the piston skirt to come into contact with the cylinder sleeve causing extensive wear.

another reason is due to increased piston speed. as the stroke gets longer, the piston moves faster within the cylinder during its transition from TDC to BDC. at higher rpm's, this becomes as issue as the piston will ultimately hit a point where it's speed has it accelerating past the flame front, causing poor/irregular ignition and decrease the amount of air and fuel going into the combustion chamber as the piston travels too quickly, normally beyond the capability of the cam controlled valves.

this is based on rod/stroke (rod length : stroke length) ratio. a "square" motor has a rod/stroke ratio of 1:1.74 or 1" of rod length for every 1.74" of stroke length. is the stroke length is higher than 1.74, the motor is considered "oversquare", and usually makes more HP over TQ and is sometimes referred to as a "twister motor". lower is obviously "undersquare", favoring torque over HP, and is referred to as a "torquer". by stroking, you move more undersquare than your previous motor configuration. ever wonder why an S2000 can rev to 10,000rpm, while the 350Z stops the fun at 6600rpm? it's not necessarily because of rotational mass, but due to the rod stroke ratio of both motors. the S2000's F20C is VERY oversquare, allowing for slower piston speeds compared to crank rotational speed, supporting higher rpms and making high HP numbers at the sacrifice of TQ. it's degree of oversquareness is likened to an F1 motor or sport bike. the 350Z's VQ35 is undersquare, favoring TQ, and being more capable at lower rpms. this is why you can drop the hammer on the Z at 3000rpm, while the S2000 requires you do so at nearly 7000rpm when launching.


yes, you can use a higher lift cam to help it at high rpm to be more compatible with the increased piston speeds, but you suffer driveability issues... if you've ever heard a GM350 with a really lumpy race cam, you'll understand what i'm talking about. it works at high rpm, but at the sacrifice of low rpm performance and driveability.


it can go all different directions, in many different degrees... but these are the 2 main reasons explaining why increasing the stroke of a motor will usually result in a lower redline compared to its previous configuration.

royce so

rod/stroke ratio has nothing to do with squareness. a square motor is one with the same bore and stroke. oversquare means you have a larger bore than stroke, and undersquare means you have a have a smaller bore than stroke. the r/s ratio is the length of your rod divided by the length of your stroke. the vq is very oversquare and has almost a perfect r/s ratio, it's just not revved sky high because it wasn't designed that way. you have to blueprint all the parts of your engine together to determine what's the best set-up for you. the nissan engineers, decided to do it this way and built the induction and exhaust systems, gearing, etc. to complement the characteristics of their design. if you want to build up your vq to be a high revving screamer you can do that with the proper blueprinting. go map the instaneous and mean piston speeds of an f20 vs. a vq35 and tell me what you find. please get some facts before you go spewing non-sense. hondas are the most undersquare motors out there, but you can still rev the **** out of 'em because that's the way the engine was designed.

Brandon@Forged

Moved.