SKiDaZZLe Let me know about how easy this is to do and where I can call to order it. My daytona would love that.

InvsbleBlk@aol.com

EZ

 

I'm sorry but I can't see how this would work (except the Placebo effect) . Count me in with the negative Nellies but then again maybe I've been brain washed by too many years of science.

When you turn on a flashlight current flows from the postive terminal to ground. If you add an extra ground wire the light is not going to burn any brighter or any more efficiently.

If the factory ground wasn't adequate you'd first notice it under
high load conditions like when you try to start the car with the lights on.

 

I'm so glad to see someone get this done! Congratulations!
Victor, I'm looking foward to your completed kit as well. Are you using 4 gauge wire as well? I think 8 would be plenty if you are working on a budget.

-POWERZ

 

Having a degree in psych., I was thinking the same things...

 

A more clearer route to ground... might help...

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with healthy skepticism, but one can be too skeptical. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith. This is a relatively inexpensive modification and several people have already commented on how much smoother the engine operates. This will no doubt be my first mod.

 

Still, we can't discount the placebo effect. I say we do a blind test where someone drives and rides in two Zs. One will be the control and be without the grounding cable and one will be the tester with the cables. If this person could tell the difference, then it would have to be VERY significant because of the micro sample size. (of course this is a very simplistic way to do this)

In any case, the grounding cables shouldn't HURT anything.

 

Sounds sane to me.

...from another installer:
"i've had the install for about 2 weeks and i definitely still think it makes the engine smoother...as for the gas mileage i not sure if i've had enough time to determine...so far i don't see an increase or decrease...but i am glad that i installed it just because i can feel the difference in smoothness of the engine..."

 

ran some tests this morning... i could not find my fluke multi-meter, so i just did rpm logging at idle. here is a pic of the setup of my OBD2 scanner/logger:

 

here is a screenshot of the results with the grounding kit fully connected:

please note, i ran the tests for 400 seconds each. i have boxed in the results:

 

here are the results from the test when i removed the earthing kit cables from the battery and the chassis:

note that the idle has a greater delta in RPM (in fact its double). please remember, this is an idle test only. i would expect to see the same results at any rpm range...

any questions from the non-believers?

 

oh yeah... one last thing...

the obd2 scanner can be purchased at www.obd-2.com.

m

 

Well, that definitely shows some difference, but there may be many other variables involved in creating the difference and NOT the grounding cables. What were the conditions of the test? Was the engine started and idled at the same temperature or was the first test on a cold start, etc? Things like that can affect the testing, but I'm not insinuating that the above example is a real effect in your test. I'd just like to have as many specifics as possible so that we can all see a measurable effect. Thanks!

 

ok sorry... one more post... here is the explaination of the stats from the help file: (note that the max rate is better (lower) with the grounding kit...)

Avg.
This is a abbreviation for Average or the Mean and is determined by summing all data values and dividing by the total count.
Example the Average of the numbers 1 2 3 4 is (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 ) divided by 4 = 2.5

Max,
This is a abbreviation for Maximum. and is determined by noting the maximum value.
Example the Maximum of the numbers 1 2 3 4 is 4

Min,
This is a abbreviation for Minimum and is determined by noting the minimum value.

Example the Minimum of the numbers 1 2 3 4 is 1

Dif.
This is a abbreviation for Difference or the Range and is determined by subtracting the Maximum from the Minimum
Example the Difference between 4 and 1 is 3

The following values or time based.

Rate is determined by measuring a change in value over time.
Example if a value changed from 2 to 1 in 1 second the rate of change would be (1-2) divided by 1 = -1 units/ second

Max is the maximum rate of increase

Min is the minimum rate of decrease

Freq. is a abbreviation for frequency and is determined by measuring the time period of a cycle of a value to the same value. then dividing one cycle by the time taken
Example for the values 4 1 2 3 4 1 measured at interval of 1 second, the time from 1 at time =0 to 1 would be 4 seconds.
with frequency = 1 cycle divided by 4 seconds = 0.25 cycle per second = 0.25 Hertz where Hertz = cycles per second

T(s) is the time period of one cycle.

P-P is a abbreviation for Peak to Peak and is determined by the absolute difference of Maximum and Minimum values in one cycle.

 

they were both done after the car was warmed up. in fact, i waited until the fan turned on, then off, before each test.

i dont think anyone will ever convince true skeptics... kinda like religion, i guess... there are so many bogus things posted all over the internet... its up to you to decide what to believe...

i am just posting what i have found. have you noticed no one with the kit has stated it doesn't work? only people who haven't tried one...

m

 

The way I'm seeing it is you got an avg. RPM of 651 with the wires and 646 w/o. I really don't see much difference in those 2 figures. The higher RPM was actually recorded with the wire off
but this is not really significant either as many times the highest and lowest numbers are thrown out to give a better "average"
I still don't see much going on here myself but I'm a little dense at times.

 

psst: look at the ranges. the grounding kit kept a tighter range for the idle. IE: less studder, less bumpy idle.

m

 

RPM's of 350 and 950 would also average out to 650, but I think you would admit this would be a pretty rough idle. I think the differential is a better indicator for this test than averages.

I wouldn't say I'm 'sold' on the grounding kit yet, as I don't know if the average person (or me for example) would 'feel the difference' in improvement with the kit, but I do appreciate SkiDazzle going through this process to get some data to review. With the cost for the mod becoming very reasonable, it could be done just for the fun of adding something to your car, and be worth the expense and time to install.

 

It was a good start, Michael, and I appreciate your efforts, honestly.

I'm just trying to build up some real hard data here and eliminate as many extraneous variables as possible.

I still don't know if we have enough data from your test to make the effect statistically significant. The test was only done for 400 seconds, you said? I'd like to see this run for longer and in different controlled conditions. Of course, that's a pain in the ***, and as a self-proscribed believer, you may not care.

Your last statement describes the placebo effect. People who spend time, effort and money on this kit are more likely to believe its working than to not believe its working because of the time, effort and money expended. They have vested interests in believing the grounding works. People who don't have the kit are more likely to be objective and, therefore, more likely to be skeptical.

I'm not saying the kit doesn't work. I'd love it if it did work as described. However, I do lean towards the logic put forth above: if it is so great, why wasn't it included from the factory? Of course, Nissan stands to save some money, but would they really crimp on so few dollars? If the kit costs 2 dollars for them to produce and install, say, that's a savings of only 80k dollars (at 40k units produced). Of course, one could argue that the grounding cables aren't a necessity to have the car running normally and not including them would save the 80k dollars. Then selling them as aftermarket parts would allow MORE income. I just don't know if that's the case with Nissan. I'm just saying is possible that they want to save that tiny amount of money. I would try to cut costs wherever I could as well.

Bottom line is that I'd like to get some solid data to see if this works because it would be a really great and simple mod to have the engine running that much better. I just don't think we should rush out and buy the kits unless they really do work.

EDIT - One thing you can do, Michael, that might help establish some base line data is to do a few more tests at a set time interval with the kit on. That way we can get an idea of the variability. I'd like to see the variability with the kit off, too, but I don't know if you want to bother with all of that...

 

A big yes!!! thanks for the data and all the trouble it took. I'd like to see more. I just don't see a real difference from the data. Maybe you could do the same with a K and N filter?