Custom Earthing/Grounding system Installed...
10-24-2002, 07:49 PM
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Custom Earthing/Grounding system Installed...
First, let me say that I also noticed a smoother idle, and smoother revs across the range. Seems like the earthing system is a good product, but is awefully expensive.
Now for the custom kit I installed... the guy who did my audio install is the one who built the earthing kit for me.
We used all Monster Cable 4 gauge and Monster Cable lugs. Wires are also shrink-wrapped. Also added are 5 bolts and washers, to replace 2 stock bolts, and add 3 new bolts.
We used the same lengths of wire as the Nismo kit, and it came out wonderful.
Currently, they were out of the battery terminal clamp, so we just mounted the last wire to the battery by adding a second nut.
I was wondering if anyone would be interested in purchasing the kit from my installer... we were thinking the Nismo kit is really expensive at $200, and the Hyperground system is also too expensive at $130, cause it comes with parts you dont even need, and is meant as a universal kit.
The available colors are blue, red, silver, and black. The red and black are solid sheath, while the blue and silver are translucent sheaths. He can also put the wires in loom if you do not want a flashy install. The wires come labeled with lengths and full instructions are included.
The price he came up with was $90 + shipping. This is due to the high cost of quality Monster Cable product, and his time to put them together. I am personally not making any money on these kits. Please post questions here, but please PM me if you are interested in having a kit.
-M
Pics to follow...Here is the first:
Now for the custom kit I installed... the guy who did my audio install is the one who built the earthing kit for me.
We used all Monster Cable 4 gauge and Monster Cable lugs. Wires are also shrink-wrapped. Also added are 5 bolts and washers, to replace 2 stock bolts, and add 3 new bolts.
We used the same lengths of wire as the Nismo kit, and it came out wonderful.
Currently, they were out of the battery terminal clamp, so we just mounted the last wire to the battery by adding a second nut.
I was wondering if anyone would be interested in purchasing the kit from my installer... we were thinking the Nismo kit is really expensive at $200, and the Hyperground system is also too expensive at $130, cause it comes with parts you dont even need, and is meant as a universal kit.
The available colors are blue, red, silver, and black. The red and black are solid sheath, while the blue and silver are translucent sheaths. He can also put the wires in loom if you do not want a flashy install. The wires come labeled with lengths and full instructions are included.
The price he came up with was $90 + shipping. This is due to the high cost of quality Monster Cable product, and his time to put them together. I am personally not making any money on these kits. Please post questions here, but please PM me if you are interested in having a kit.
-M
Pics to follow...Here is the first:
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10-24-2002, 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by VQracer
Very very nice! I'm making a kit myself too. Those lugs look a lot nicer than what I have.
Victor
Very very nice! I'm making a kit myself too. Those lugs look a lot nicer than what I have.
Victor
like i said... real high quality parts, and the craftsmanship of a veteran.
m
10-24-2002, 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by VQracer
I got some high quality parts too. I'm using Lightning Audio 4 gauge wires but the blue is lighter than yours.
Although my Lugs look sorry compared to yours.
But IMHO the quality won't matter much since I've seen soem really crappy custom made grounding kits that work just as fine. Using expensive Monster Cable products isn't going to make a noticeable differance.
Victor
I got some high quality parts too. I'm using Lightning Audio 4 gauge wires but the blue is lighter than yours.
Although my Lugs look sorry compared to yours.
But IMHO the quality won't matter much since I've seen soem really crappy custom made grounding kits that work just as fine. Using expensive Monster Cable products isn't going to make a noticeable differance.
Victor
obviously these are quality parts, but it is still a significant discount over the 2 popular kits.i am just letting people know there are other options besides $130 and $200 kits... yes, people can probably do kits for $20, and they might work just as well...
i just think people dont mind paying a little more for quality... and also, most people either can't make their own kit, or don't even care too. and also, there are a ton of people who don't even want an earthing kit!
feel free to sell your kits, or give out the parts/instructions also, victor. this will give people more options...
m
10-24-2002, 08:30 PM
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I'm trying to keep an open mind on this grounding cable thing, but I am still skeptical: if it was so easy to make an engine run smoother and better, by simply providing adequate grounding, why wouldn't the engine be properly grounded by the manufacturer? The wire would have to cost them maybe a dollar or two at the most; wouldn't they spend that kind of money to make a noticeable improvement to the engine?
I have to believe that this is kind of like the idea that expensive wire can make your speakers sound better. Has anyone ever done blind tests to compare a car with and without grounding cables to see if there is really a difference? (Psychological differences when you know the "improvement" is installed can be quite powerful and cannot be relied on as a true test of success.)
I have to believe that this is kind of like the idea that expensive wire can make your speakers sound better. Has anyone ever done blind tests to compare a car with and without grounding cables to see if there is really a difference? (Psychological differences when you know the "improvement" is installed can be quite powerful and cannot be relied on as a true test of success.)
10-24-2002, 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by z350z
I'm trying to keep an open mind on this grounding cable thing, but I am still skeptical: if it was so easy to make an engine run smoother and better, by simply providing adequate grounding, why wouldn't the engine be properly grounded by the manufacturer? The wire would have to cost them maybe a dollar or two at the most; wouldn't they spend that kind of money to make a noticeable improvement to the engine?
I have to believe that this is kind of like the idea that expensive wire can make your speakers sound better. Has anyone ever done blind tests to compare a car with and without grounding cables to see if there is really a difference? (Psychological differences when you know the "improvement" is installed can be quite powerful and cannot be relied on as a true test of success.)
I'm trying to keep an open mind on this grounding cable thing, but I am still skeptical: if it was so easy to make an engine run smoother and better, by simply providing adequate grounding, why wouldn't the engine be properly grounded by the manufacturer? The wire would have to cost them maybe a dollar or two at the most; wouldn't they spend that kind of money to make a noticeable improvement to the engine?
I have to believe that this is kind of like the idea that expensive wire can make your speakers sound better. Has anyone ever done blind tests to compare a car with and without grounding cables to see if there is really a difference? (Psychological differences when you know the "improvement" is installed can be quite powerful and cannot be relied on as a true test of success.)
i dont think its psychological... earlier today my car had that slight stuttering while idling... you know, sometimes it feels more bumpy..? well, now there is none of that...
even if it is all psychological... they have proven people have overcome deathly illnesses by watching comedy...
10-24-2002, 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by SKiDaZZLe
there are at least 2 (proabably more) which ground the engine to the chassis. these are really skinny wires... same size as the one from the battery to the chassis.
i dont think its psychological... earlier today my car had that slight stuttering while idling... you know, sometimes it feels more bumpy..? well, now there is none of that...
even if it is all psychological... they have proven people have overcome deathly illnesses by watching comedy...
there are at least 2 (proabably more) which ground the engine to the chassis. these are really skinny wires... same size as the one from the battery to the chassis.
i dont think its psychological... earlier today my car had that slight stuttering while idling... you know, sometimes it feels more bumpy..? well, now there is none of that...
even if it is all psychological... they have proven people have overcome deathly illnesses by watching comedy...
(But I'd still love to hear about any double-blind, scientific tests done to prove the effectiveness of gorunding cables. Call me a skeptic.
)
10-24-2002, 08:53 PM
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ok i have some tests planned for tomorrow...
disconnect the wires i added from the battery and the chassis. then i will run resistance tests from the engine block to the chassis, the chassis to the battery, and the engine all the way to the battery.
next i will reconnect the 2 wires, and re-run the tests... hopefully, we should see a significant drop in resistance.
is this a good start? its either this, or trust our perceptions...
any other ideas to run?
edit: the first test will still have the straps which only connect from one engine point to the others... i dont think this will effect me measuring resistance from the engine to chassis or battery.
disconnect the wires i added from the battery and the chassis. then i will run resistance tests from the engine block to the chassis, the chassis to the battery, and the engine all the way to the battery.
next i will reconnect the 2 wires, and re-run the tests... hopefully, we should see a significant drop in resistance.
is this a good start? its either this, or trust our perceptions...
any other ideas to run?
edit: the first test will still have the straps which only connect from one engine point to the others... i dont think this will effect me measuring resistance from the engine to chassis or battery.
Last edited by SKiDaZZLe; 10-24-2002 at 08:55 PM.
10-24-2002, 09:16 PM
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The best way to see if the cables really help would be to perform a number of engine idle/revving tests where you write down how smooth the engine feels each time. For each test, someone who you do not have any contact with will either install or remove the cables, with a random chance on each test that the cables will be connected (50% probability).
I know, this is not practical to do! But it's really the only fair way to see if they really work.
Or, a less accurate but simpler test would be to measure the engine RPM with an accurate electronic tachometer before and after the installation, with all other variables (engine temp, etc.) remaining as equal as possible. The more "stuttering" idle would probably register a lower average RPM.
Measuring the resistance is interesting, but we don't know if lower resistance corresponds to a perceptibly smoother-running engine.
But if you think it feels better and you're happy with it, then it's a good thing! (Unfortunately I am cursed with being unable to be happy unless I know there is a real difference.)
I know, this is not practical to do! But it's really the only fair way to see if they really work.
Or, a less accurate but simpler test would be to measure the engine RPM with an accurate electronic tachometer before and after the installation, with all other variables (engine temp, etc.) remaining as equal as possible. The more "stuttering" idle would probably register a lower average RPM.
Measuring the resistance is interesting, but we don't know if lower resistance corresponds to a perceptibly smoother-running engine.
But if you think it feels better and you're happy with it, then it's a good thing! (Unfortunately I am cursed with being unable to be happy unless I know there is a real difference.)
10-24-2002, 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by z350z
The best way to see if the cables really help would be to perform a number of engine idle/revving tests where you write down how smooth the engine feels each time. For each test, someone who you do not have any contact with will either install or remove the cables, with a random chance on each test that the cables will be connected (50% probability).
I know, this is not practical to do! But it's really the only fair way to see if they really work.
Or, a less accurate but simpler test would be to measure the engine RPM with an accurate electronic tachometer before and after the installation, with all other variables (engine temp, etc.) remaining as equal as possible. The more "stuttering" idle would probably register a lower average RPM.
Measuring the resistance is interesting, but we don't know if lower resistance corresponds to a perceptibly smoother-running engine.
But if you think it feels better and you're happy with it, then it's a good thing! (Unfortunately I am cursed with being unable to be happy unless I know there is a real difference.)
The best way to see if the cables really help would be to perform a number of engine idle/revving tests where you write down how smooth the engine feels each time. For each test, someone who you do not have any contact with will either install or remove the cables, with a random chance on each test that the cables will be connected (50% probability).
I know, this is not practical to do! But it's really the only fair way to see if they really work.
Or, a less accurate but simpler test would be to measure the engine RPM with an accurate electronic tachometer before and after the installation, with all other variables (engine temp, etc.) remaining as equal as possible. The more "stuttering" idle would probably register a lower average RPM.
Measuring the resistance is interesting, but we don't know if lower resistance corresponds to a perceptibly smoother-running engine.
But if you think it feels better and you're happy with it, then it's a good thing! (Unfortunately I am cursed with being unable to be happy unless I know there is a real difference.)
1) i have an obd2 scanner and logger.. i could easily record average RPM over any time. i might try this at idle with and without while someone is measuring resistance.
2) all grounding cables can do is lower the resistance...they arent holding the engine down!!! what else could they be doing to make a difference (assuming they are making a difference.. which they are!!!
)m
10-24-2002, 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by SKiDaZZLe
2 things:
1) i have an obd2 scanner and logger.. i could easily record average RPM over any time. i might try this at idle with and without while someone is measuring resistance.
2) all grounding cables can do is lower the resistance...they arent holding the engine down!!! what else could they be doing to make a difference (assuming they are making a difference.. which they are!!! )
m
2 things:
1) i have an obd2 scanner and logger.. i could easily record average RPM over any time. i might try this at idle with and without while someone is measuring resistance.
2) all grounding cables can do is lower the resistance...they arent holding the engine down!!! what else could they be doing to make a difference (assuming they are making a difference.. which they are!!!
)m
2) Of course all they do is lower resistance. But how do we know that lower resistance guarantees a smoother running engine, unless we do the tests? That's quite an assumption to make.