s2kphil

iTrader: (10)

wtf are you serious. did you even bother to read the post

BigZ88

iTrader: (2)

well rick, truth is, i'm an engineer, so i know what goes into parts and products. I do not support crappy rip-off's. I do however support a company taking an idea, expanding on it, changing the functionality, or materials if the original company refuses to do so to lower costs for those who do not care if a part is CF or abs plastic. It is for that reason that i would put my support into the corner of the evo-r duct. If varis starts to put out a plastic version that they can have injection molded and mass-produced for a much lower cost...i'd buy directly from them or one of their verified resellers. I think alot of this has gotten blown out of proportion. The truth is, crappy parts will always come out and show their lack of quality and engineering. The way i see it, is people who really understand, and take the time to research the functionality of a part will make the right choice each and every time.

Icedoutpenguin

aren't mods supposed to be like the forum reffs... I say kick both of them off the forums and end this argument... haha J/k This informative argument is what I joined this forum for... except without the name calling!

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

I can definitely respect that. Great post again man

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I think that is one of the problems, with Varis anyway, they can't seem to supply quantity to the market at a good price. The product is great, yet simple. No real R&D, and as someone else posted, an obvious item - get air to the intake. But there was a shortage of them for quite a while and now, the price is, at least what SPL wants, almost double from around $100 when it came out. To my knowledge, it is dry carbon, and I am sure, a quality piece. But so what? It really doesn't need to be dry carbon, and quality on a small piece like the duct is not hard to maintain. I have the Varis heat shields, they are dry carbon, and well made, well fitted, but if I could have got them for a $100 less, I would have. Many of the body kit firms from Japan can't seem to make quantity and quality for a good price, hence we have firms here and in Taiwan copying the product to satisfy the market. Ask Z1, they too are big proponents of the real thing, not replicas, yet they are selling a direct rip off of the NISMO V2 bumper. Their reasoning, and correct me if I am wrong, is that it is a quality replica that fits well. Not we have to support the innovators or the industry will dry up. Why does Varis get the "no replica" treatment and NISMO does not? Because Z1 is meeting the needs of the market, and making money, the reason they are in business. Please, Rick, go to the EVO-R / Z1 thread and post your feelings about replicas. Not just here. Call Z1 and EVO-R morons.

Anyone who thinks that the market can be satisfied by companies in Japan that charge crazy prices for the 10 or 12 pieces they sell in the USA and nobody is going to meet the needs of the pent-up customer demand for the same or similar product at a reasonable cost is living in a dreamland.

EVO-R copied the Varis duct, and made it from plastic because it is cheaper and some people paint the CF anyway. Bottom line. I don't fault them, they are meeting a need. But they are no different than other replica makers. EVO-R has made some products (like the Z4 rings) that were first for the Z, but a replica of a part on another car. I don't fault them, fine with me. I buy their products myself. Very nice. Stillen V2 front bumper is a Porche rip-off. So what. It has been going on in the auto industry since it started.

And I agree with the name calling, I don't understand why a person has to call people morons if they don't agree with their position. That is why I used the "parts *****" phrase, at least it is an accurate description.

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

I do understand the point you are trying to make, but you obviously do not know what you are talking about. Anyone who knows me personally, especially the industry individuals that are reading this thread and have im'd me about this discussion know that I am not making money off of this stuff haha. I direct people to the right source a lot of times for parts when they IM me or PM me because they trust my recommendation plain and simple. If they leave me feedback, great if not who cares if I have 61 feedback? Also for the record, I do not work for Varis or sponsored by them...just in case people think that may sway my opinion ROFLMAO

If i'm not a car lover, then I probably don't have a Z either and just wasting my time trying to get my point across to educate those that may need to be informed a bit. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye with me, but for those that I made see the industry's side of things and if I made a few Z owners question some of their purchases prior to hitting the "buy button" I feel that I did my job.

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

Really people who don't care and buy replica parts will never know this.. With all these replica kit and what not out there, for example this is why Nismo disco their V2 rear wing and why C West is going out of business in result you will never see a new design from C West for the Z. The company that put their time and money into developing new parts is not making enought money to maintain their factory so end up closing down.

my 2 cent...

B-Unit

iTrader: (21)

Im one of the people whos really on the fence with this issue. Most likely because I support both replica and authentic companies when the time comes to buy.

So far ive gone through 3 body kits and will be coming up on a 4th and all i have to say is that some of the replica companies are gaining business over the authentic companies for reasons that are more than understandable in my eyes.

It seems that the replica companies are doing so well because they are doing 2 obvious things that MOST authentic Jspec companies arent, 1. Providing the product at a reasonable price, and 2. Actually having the product when a consumer is looking to buy it. And this second point is where my feelings really get torn.

An example from MY personal experience,,,,, I cant even count how many times ive wanted something for my car and when ive gone to order the part i get a time of 3+ months. IMO THIS IS A JOKE, and THIS is the reason if any that the authentic companies are failing over here in the US. I ordered a vertex authentic bumper and it took over 6 months to come here. 6 months... are you kidding me?! Thats just unacceptable in my eyes. and on the other hand here you have Ken @ Shine Auto Project or the guys at AutoRnD who make quality vertex replica parts witth GREAT! costomer service and when you want a kit your looking at a month TOPS, absolutely tops.

So this is where i htink the authentic companies lose it. plus the fact that you see parts like the varis duct raping peoples wallets cuz apparently varis takes soo much pride in their little cf duct idea.. sorry guys, good idea, but its not THAT good.

Sorry for the read.

-B-

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

Wow if I get money from a company for sending or telling ppl about their parts I would not be driving a 350z, I would be getting the Z tune GTR.. You really don't know jack about this whole import scene do you? cause I only here ppl crying about pricing too high this and that.. my friend that have a NSX wish he can get parts at the same price as a 350z.. Also for the true enthusist you know how much money you put into your car from each paycheck...

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

Great examples B. People don't know what they are doing to the industry. People need to realize the consequences and really rethink their position on what they are doing to the aftermarket and consider if it is really worth risking what we love doing.

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

For you wating 6 months.. you should check with the company you order it from.. My friend order a vertex widebody kit for his S13 it took 2 month to get to him.. 1 month to make and 1 month for ocean freight..

I would take pride in my parts if I made it and is Dry Carbon not some weak 1 layer carbon that's back by fiberglass and will crack under stress..

B-Unit

iTrader: (21)

i didnt wanna say but ima have to. Iono who your friend ordered it from brian but i ordered mine from Speed Alliance and teyy are supposed to be like Vertex's main shop out here in cali..

is your friend in the industry like you are by any chance?? or just a consumer like me etc...

-B-

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

By purchasing replica kits it makes the situation even worse. I know how much it costs to make molds and original designs for just a basic polyurethane lip kit and it is not pretty. They have to pay the designer, the R and D, to make the mold, have it produced, ship it to the states from Japan (which isn't cheap), advertise, sit on the items they have in stock, etc + other costs. There is a big equation to the whole process and people are ignorant to the fact and ***** about wait time.

The replica companies just take the victim's bumper for example and make duplicates with a mold they make which costs them a lot less because they already have something to go off of. They then leech off of the main company's R & D, advertising, etc because it is already done and steal precious dollars that could actually go towards the authentic companies that took the time and effort and most importantly the biggest investment to make something for that particular car.

People forget that the US division or main distributor of the authentic parts have wholesale distributors they sell to with discounts that can range from 10-50+% and when you actually look at all the costs they incurred to actually take the plunge to make the body kit, they are really not making that much.

The price of course always seems appealing, but of course the price offered by a replica company is going to be lower because there is much less costs being absorbed by the replica company. Keep in mind most of the time the replica kit is basically the 4th version down the ladder when compared to an authentic kit and is inferior to the real stuff.

Example:

Original Mold (Version 1) - >Authentic Kit (Version 2) -> Replica Mold off of Authentic Kit (Version 3) -> Replica Kit (Version 4)

Really think long and hard about the negative impact that it has when you decide to go with a replica item. If you want faster turnaround times and lower costs invest in the companies that you think deserve your money to further the growth of our aftermarket and those companies will 100% be able to stock more kits at a time and lower production costs. Do you really think the replica companies truly care about the industry or just making that quick dollar? It is no secret that any company is in it to at least make some profit, but think about which companies are the ones actually investing to make innovative parts and bring us cool stuff. I think that is an easy observation to make.

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

I'm very winded and this is Friday night. I do agree that it is nice to have options like a different material etc. for someone that does not plan to have the CF look or whatever it is. However, even then it is still theft and the original company should be at least given some sort of monetary compensation whether it it be an initial start up fee or a percentage of sales for atleast having the initial design for that specific application.

I have posted some smart remarks before in some of EVO-R threads, but I am not going to go in and wreak havoc on one of their threads because they paid to be a sponsor on here and it is up to the moderators/admins//owners of this site if they are willing to take money to operate this site yet wrongfully support companies that are basically stealing.

Moron applied perfectly in this situation so I used the word accordingly.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

I think you are the moron Rick, you claim not to sell car parts, but I find threads where you have sold mutipule of the same item, sorry, don't buy it that you are just an enthusiast. Call me a moron, but dont tangle with the actual replica makers, because they ARE paying the fees to vend on this site, and you are not. Yet you sell 4 of the same brand new item. Hmmmm. So, again, attack the consumer, call the consumer names, but don't attack or call names to the actual "rip-offs" because they can cause problems for you. What a coward you are.

BigZ88

iTrader: (2)

The biggest reason that parts and body kits from japan cost so much is that for the most part lots of them are designed and built in small tuner shops who build them for their own cars or customer cars and never truly intended on going into any kind of high production run. If they did, and had the capital to do so, they could get true molds made, and have them made in abs just like a factory bumper. This way everyone HERE would be happy. This is just not how things are done there. Their main goal is not to supply a bunch of parts to the US market to make huge profits. I'm not saying some aren't, but alot of these kits are small production pieces... I think this discussion has gone well beyond the original intent of this topic, and I hope atleast the first few posts and maybe some of the non finger pointing posts have provided the creator some useful information.

Gringott and Rick, both of you have very good reputations on this site as being very well versed in the 350z world, and when you get into arguments like this, neither of your reputations is benefiting by trying to prove the other person wrong. You represent 2 different sides of the automotive aftermarket market place, and I think we can all accept that. I think we should try and stay away from rash postings bashing other people, and other parts and give what useful information we have to the people who ask the questions.

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Well said, seems to be exactly what is going on in the Japanese parts world. Again, that is where the replicas come in - they are willing to invest the captial and make the parts - some better than others.

I also agree with the last part - I'd rather not "call names" and bash. Please re-read if you please and see who started the moron etc issue. And who failed to admit or minimised a financial interest in the parts field.

Again, I have a lot of "real" parts - but no company has paid me to promote them or given them to me, or asks me to display decals etc. If a part is substandard, I have no financial reason to hide that. Sponsored people do. I do understand how the import parts world works - they (the companies) get people who have a reputation, are listened to, to use their parts so that the 16 to 30 crowd will follow the trend. Simple marketing. To fail to admit that, or that you sell parts, not just "clean out your garage", tells me something is not right.

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

Reason why the jdm company don't offer their kit in Abs is cause is heavy and flex under high speed. You and everyone should know that you can't "here happy". C West have tested all their kit on the track and come to final result that if a kit is made of FRP is will provide better down force due to not flexing under pressure. This is why all high performance car don't us abs plastic for their exterior.. Look at the Z tune GTR all replace by FRP or Dry Carbon..

gringott

iTrader: (17)

C-west appears to make some of the better researched and manufactured parts out there.

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

Yeah but they are closing down due to people buying replica kit instead of the real kit.. making them losing money to maintaining their factory..