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A little off topic I know, but since this is the cf thread, I figured I would ask...
I have a seibon cf hood 2008 OEM style that is beginning to warp. It's no longer level with the top of the fender on the passenger side and seems to have a bow in it.
Carbon fiber is a really tricky animal, especially when it comes to answering all the questions asked in this thread. As a mechanical engineer who has experience with carbon fiber I can say there is absolutely no way to tell how much weight you will save by replacing X panel or Y panel. Too many variables to consider: weave, resin, resin content, manufacturing process, etc. I will also add that the dry vs. wet look can also be effected by the mold that was used. Carbon fiber parts are only as good as the mold used to make them. Any surface in contact with the mold (especially during a wet lay up) will have that wet look and can attain Class A surfacing quality. Any surface not in contact with a mold will have the dryer look and will retain the weave texture. The best CF parts are made using multiple stage molds (IE not just male or female). If anyone has any questions about the manufacturing process (the majority of my experience is with prototype wet lamination projects) feel free to PM or post, I love this stuff.
THE IMPORTANCE OF EPOXY RESIN
Before you buy, ask your seller: "What kind of resin does your company use for carbon fiber and its derivatives?"
The wrong answer is POLYESTER RESIN!!!
Polyester resin is the cheapest product that any company can buy when working with carbon fiber or its derivatives.
Polyester resin has a blueish finish instead of a clear finish. The blue tint significantly reduces the appearance of the product.
Polyester resin is inflexible and will spider-crack at the mere thought of bending. Spider cracks fracture from the point of damage and are very difficult to fix.
Excessive amounts of polyester resin need to be used during the molding process. This adds considerable weight to the product and defeats the purpose of purchasing lightweight carbon fiber.
Polyester resin will shrink over time and alter the shape of the final product, resulting in installation headaches and additional modifications for fit.
Polyester resin is not UV resistant and will turn yellow over time.
The correct answer is EPOXY RESIN!!!
Epoxy resin is the industry standard for high-performance race products.
Epoxy resin is extremely flexible. The flexibility allows a carbon fiber product to absorb a high level of impact force without breaking.
Epoxy resin does not spider-crack. When epoxy reaches it�s maximum bending potential (MBP), it will form only a single crack at the stress point.
Epoxy resin has a transparent finish that allows the deep, black 3D appearance of the carbon fiber to show through.
Epoxy resin does not shrink.
Epoxy is 100% UV resistant.
WHy cant SHine Auto make a mirror image of the Varis Air duct for the passenger side...
I have a shine auto air duct and was very impressed with the quality but i need one for the other side!
Seems like there is a decent amount of interest in these too.....
The picture below is a dual set of them but no one can answer who makes them....
Last edited by 03redlineZ; 10-01-2010 at 07:21 PM.
Sorry. I haven't gotten a chance to visit this thread in awhile.
Nebiros...
The stuff you are reading on epoxy and the benefits they convey are somewhat true, but mostly, in my opinion, marketing gibberish. As Devari mentioned, when it comes to pratical use there are inherent flaws that only manufacturers would know about.
Epoxy resin for parts is not the industry standard. I am willing to bet most JDM companies don't use Epoxy. We use polyester and I am willing to bet most of the "higher" grade jdm stuff also uses polyester resin.
Epoxy molecules are larger than PE and VE resins. So its difficult to bring it to a nice glossy finish. Epoxy is also not 100% UV resistant. That is gibberish. You will most likely see an epoxy part start to yellow before other resins. Reason is that most clear surface coats used in the industry are either PE or VE based. Epoxy is incompatible with the 2, so a surface coat (which has UV protection..if you get the right one) will usually not be on epoxy parts during the production. The only solutions is to prep the surface and apply an automotive clear, which adds to the cost of the product. It's not worth it. you can get better quality parts vacuum bagging a PE or VE parts vs a handlaid epoxy part. Epoxy is 3 times more and when its all said and done and executed to meet the needs of the automotive market.. most times it will be super highly priced and overkill for most applications.
Great write up, but I lost you guys in the end here :| so which one is better, polyester or epoxy ?? and would that be the same for hand laid wet, vacuum bagging or infusion ??
Depends on what you're looking for. If finish... you can probably achieve ideal results with PE. If strength.. technically.... if you really know what you're doing and you're willing to put in the work, epoxy is better. Only because its inherently stronger. but the price is significantly higher.
Infusion is the best method to yield an ideal resin to fabric ratio. We have infused fiberglass parts that ended up being stronger than handlaid carbon. Their are many factors that determine strength and its all in technique and material choice. Every company does things differently and its all trade secret stuff. Heck, not every company handlays stuff the same either.
I just wanted to correct any info that may have been misunderstood. The resin info is not that of my own but what is posted across the net on numerous carbon fiber info/production sites. I personally don't have experience with carbon but I do with fiberglass.
My quote here seems to have struck a key...
Originally Posted by Nebiros
Epoxy resin is the industry standard for high-performance race products.
One thing being overlooked is "for HIGH-PERFORMANCE RACE products". Personally I don’t consider cosmetic or 95% of aftermarket carbon products to be in the realm of high-performance race. Of course epoxy is not the aftermarket "industry standard"... Very few if any companies could make much profit or sell many products with the cost of epoxy fabrication. The aftermarket industry standard is to use whatever they can to make the cheapest product to yield the greatest profit, while making a decent enough product to stay in business.
+1 on Epoxy being better than poly, ive just started working with carbon and found this out from personal experience. If anyone is looking where to get decent carbon and resin for cheap check out http://www.solarcomposites.com/ the resin they have is great has uv inhibitors. I would still reccomend using a uv clear though. Ive been using minwax clear which is availableat most hardware stores. Ive also used some cheaper stuff (max clr) from ebay with decent sucess, its nice and clear but it doesnt seem as flexible though.
Does anyone know where i can get some carbon/kevlar 8 satin harness? i love the pattern it produces and would like to make some cooling panels for the z33 and 32 but havent been able to find any.
Damn, thanks Devari and Shine for the info it really helped out when I was in the market for buying a hood and hatch and this info really helped out. Also special thanks to Devari for making my A pillars and roof! The parts came out perfect and fit was perfect. You guys should make a hatch like the asuka ones.
To Mr Shine Aoto Project, for this entry i'm presenting you with an honoury doctorate and from hereonin you will be known as Doctor Carbon Fiber as this is the most informative post on carbon fiber i have read and answers a whole host of questions i've had regarding carbon fiber. Pre preg, different twills and weaves, dry carbon, pre preg carbon etc all answered on this post, for this sir i commend you. Thank you for the education.
Latest project straight out of the mold (still not done). Carbon b pillars that are a direct replacement and not just covers. I've been getting much better results with infusion versus vac bagging.
I have. 2008 manual 350z. I dislike my interior, it's all chipped. I want to go CF for the whole interior (the whole console) I have seen some kits on eBay but I don't want to go cheap. I want sometbing that will last. I was just playing around experimenting with plasti dip. It's been a few days since I have done the shifting panel and it's already looking like it's gonna come off around the emergency blinkers button Im new to this forum, new to all of this. DM me if you can help me out or refer me to any places or sites.
12-28-2009, 08:19 PM
