Damn this thing is Ricey!!! Damn civics, integras, and crx's ruined the whole damn import scene.

Hell, they should slap on some Uncle Ben's Rice sponsorship decals or better yet build the car in Japan just so we can call it rice...or we could call it spaghetti or rigatoni.

 

I'm glad i don't have to do this to my car...damn germans. I bet this wing was designed to appeal to the CRX's back here in the states...totally pointless.

Talk about knockworst.

 

ROTFLMAO...sarcastic SOB I am. The rice is strong in this one.

 

those wheels are BAD-***!!!
never know volk made ce-28n's with polished lip...
yo sup (or anyone for that matter), know what size the c-west is running?

 

I really wish some of you would get a clue about downforce and how ridiculous these asinine wings are on street cars. Comparing the ABT DTM TT to this hideous Z is ludicrous. A real race-car has an entire system of complimentary diffusers that work in conjunction with the wing. The underside of that DTM TT is COMPLETELY covered by a huge diffuser that directs air under the car with very little turbulance. That DTM TT will also hit 160 MPH on the straights. How many Zs here have hit 160 on a road course? Exactly.

An improperly tuned wing will also upset the balance of a vehicle on a high-speed course. Too much downforce on the rear will cause the front tires to get loose and in turn provoke understeer. Ricers don't understand this. Race car drivers do. Aerodynamics are used for one thing and one thing only on a race car. To push down on the car and give the tires more grip at high speeds. Understeer and oversteer at low speeds is a function of the suspension geometry. Understeer and oversteer at high speeds can be dialed in/out by a properly tuned aerodynamic package. You can't do this testing in a wind tunnel. All that will do is give you an idea of straight-line CofD. Testing and tuning an aero package on a road coarse is absolutely critical in order to find out what happens under braking, acceleration and setting the car for high-speed turns. A lot of race teams will tune an aero package to be optimum at half tanks so that the driver can push the car hard early and rely on aerodynamics later as the tires start to wear out.

If you like big, stupid-***, F&F wings, fine. More power to you. Bolt away. But don't kid yourself or anyone else on this board that you actually know what your doing by putting that park bench on your car.

 

Not tryin to argue, but the C-West spoiler was tested and tuned on road courses for the JGTC series, all C-West aero products are tested and tuned for JGTC racing, and are used on the JGTC cars, so the parts and spoilers are actualy functional, and not just a "park bench on your car".

 

And I won't argue with you either. I can guarantee that the JGTC vehicle are running a complete aero package including vast underbody diffusers and not just a wing, front diffuser and those little winglets on the rear bumper. That's what I'm trying to get across. A spoiler alone is not functional. A front diffuser alone is not functional.

 

Quote:

your point is well taken...however you do realize that you drive a Japanese car right?
therefore whether you are living in Japan, North America, Australia it is more than likely you will modify your car with parts produced in Japan.

do a few searches on some supras, youd be quite surprised that there are quite a few american made performance parts for the car.
as far as my car is concerned, the onlything japanese is the body, and motor. there are obviously a few other parts from japan, but believe it or not, half the components on the car are either specially made in the u.s. or hand made by me and my dad.
i guess thats the beauty of owning a 31 year old Z without any computer mumbojumbo (besides my sds ) to make things difficult to work on.
franklinz

 

couldnt of said it better.
franklinz

 

I can't speak for the Z, but the C-West aero kits for the FD, Silvias, and the DC2 used in JGTC and the Japanese Super Taikyu Endurance racing circuit are the same ones sold to the public...while the GT wing has been slightly modified to be more functional for street application.

 

Is it just me, or does the steering wheel appear to be on the right hand, YET it has California plates?

 

I don't disagree with you that most "park benches" are installed for more fashionable reasons but your previous post about the C-West wing is off the mark based on your preconceived notion that most drivers are unskilled and therfore ignorant of the tuning of auto aerodynamics. The ABT DTM TT has a completely flat underbody - no diffusers except at the rear to control flow dynamics upon exit and the combination of front inlets, ducts, and scoops that maximize efficiency for cooling (brakes/engine) while minimizing turbulent conflict with external flowing forces.

The rear wings are designed in racing, not only to DTM, JGTC, or F1, to maximize downforce while minimizing drag to affect corner entrance speeds, maximize accelerative grip, and exit speeds in concert with braking, tire compounds, and engine power. You can dial in understeer or oversteer with camber, tire widths, suspension damping, suspension geometry, etc etc not solely by your choice in aerodynamics.

But let's digress to the C-West in particular and the "park bench" as you like to call it. You are more than correct to assume that the commercial market for these wings are exactly that...commercial. But to call it the worst looking wing ever under the assumption that no one would know how to use it except for racing teams and that it alludes to the notion that C-West has made an awful wing under the pretense of not know WTF they're doing. In light of that, i would disagree with you and the others who would wholeheartedly trash it as being rice. As more and more privateers jump on the Pro Racing circuit in different leagues with or without factory support, wings such as these will most likely be attached as the one in the NISMO GT Z and by this i find the beauty in the wing's function just like i find the beauty in C-West's race cars in the JGTC. At this point, people have to tread carefully on what they would term rice based upon assumptions of owner's knowledge and skill...cuz at this point under your assumptions, people also shouldn't get coilovers, big brake upgrades, lightweight wheels, sway bars because quite honestly they're just not skilled enough to use such aftermarket performance parts and, therefore, they are all ricers. Hell, anyone who owns a grounding kit should be termed a ricer or the kit itself should be considered a money-wasting tangle of pretty wire cuz no one seems to be able to definitively prove that the earthing kits have any advantage besides being pretty and at the same time not have the knowledge to understand why they should install it in the first place without having an electrical engineering degree and race team experience.

Perhaps the paint jobs, stickers, cheap knockoff wheels prevalent in the import culture have made those a bit more serious a bit more jaded and disgruntled by people taking their assumed piece o **** cars and cheaply making it into something it isn't. But those park benches didn't come from APC, APC and every other perceived craptastic manufacturer brought those wings from racing...and racing sells cars and parts and every car owner has the right to put one on their car if only for sporty nature of car modifications real and/or perceived.

 

id go as far as to say that not too many folks on the streets with such wings will EVER see the benifits of having added downforce.

those that actually use spoilers for its intended purpose probably wont be driving their track tested and tuned cars on the streets.
there for i call rice/tacky/bs/attention ***** on ANY car that is incapable of producing enough speed to see the affects of downforce provided from a wing in the back.
franklinz

 

Honestly, did you even read my post? I ALREADY mentioned EVERYTHING and then some of what you were trying to school me on with regards to racing aerodynamics.

That's WHY I said that aerodynamics AID GRIP at HIGH SPEEDS. That's why I made the distinction between low-speed suspension geometry and high-speed aerodynamic downforce.

Where's the REACHING icon when you need it? Can you honestly think that anyone here on this board would benefit from the C-West wing on their STREET-DRIVEN cars? Honestly? How do you tie-in understanding of advanced aerodynamics to basic, time-tested mods? Understanding that your brakes don't hold up to lapping on the track and deciding to upgrade is A LOT easier than figuring out how many degrees of tilt you need in that rear wing.

Anyone that would put that wing on a boulevard cruiser deserves every bit of derision they might receive.

 

actually you talked about oversteer/understeer in your post regarding aerodynamics which i believe is incorrect...infamous front wheel drive front engine oversteer isnt going to be corrected by front splitters nor rear diffusers.

would the cwest wing help anyone in a production Z...prob. not though the Z shares some similar properties as audi TT and its been discussed that the TT at autobahn speeds creates potentially enough rear lift to cause spinouts. I also wonder why Porsche of all companies would spend the money and weight on the carrera for the auto rear spoiler. It's obvious that doing anything under 60mph won't do a thing with a wing but i hazard to guess that the wing with a front clip/splitter wouldn't hurt.

My attitude on your post was more because i believe you claimed some incorrect reasonings and false generaities. Most production derived race cars do not use underbody diffusers...they use flat underbodies. I can really only think of F1 and champ-type cars that use underbody diffusers in light of the shape of the car bodies themselves.

And you're contradicting yourself when you talk about big brake upgrades for the track for brake fade and heat dissipation when we are discussing wings on the street and their associated usefulness along with other mods for the street. If we were to talk about wings on the track, it wouldn't take a race team hours on the computer exploring fluid dynamics and low pressure planes to get the appropriate angle of attack when they make an instant adjustment during a race on a wing that has already been tested and designed...the Cwest wing also having been tested in race conditions on their cars.

And i believe that your reasonings were an attempt to technically display your hatred for car enthusiasts who modify their cars to their own liking with a lame blanket statement as: "WOW! That is the worst looking Z I've ever seen!" Everyone is entitled to their opinion but then you went on to technically reason why when a simple "i don't like it" would have been sufficient. Could you also please technically explain your methodologies for the grounding kit you have...perhaps you can display some graphs of currents over certain rev ranges or explain hp increases at certain speeds. I don't mean to be snide...um ok i do because everyone is a Michael Schumacher or Felix Wankel or MIT grad in fluid dynamics on the internet.

 

I can understand a functional spoiler for downforce. The oversided "park-bench wing" is completely ludacris however. A spoiler does not need to look stupid to privide downforce.

Anyways, I'd not a wing supporter. Jeez, let's look at two of my favorite, and ridiculously fast cars:



What, no wing? I've experianced one of these up to 150mph it felt pretty stable.



Wow, $400,000+ and still no wing? Damnit.

 

Actually the Enzo has a rear lift up spoiler that is speed activated. Bad picture but you get the point.


..it is also couple with a underbody diffuser system to control airflow unlike many racecars which fall under a system of rules that do not allow underbody diffusers. The undertray and front ducts generate sufficient downforce to keep the Enzo stable up to speeds of 220mph.


The 360 used in gt racing does use rear wings as do the 550's.

 

I'm not even going to f*ck around with you anymore and waste my time typing. Do a search for aerodynamics AND their affects on understeer/oversteer and you will find that in fact I AM right.

P.S. I like how your sig with all the mods you've done suddenly disappears.

 

Oh i see...you state your facts from others' opinions on the internet, probably watch your dose of HiRev Tuners and any other assorted sources of television. Maybe you should get a book on Bernoulli and Venturi effects before you start talking about understeer and oversteer...but Cliff Notes version from me says body aerodynamics are for grip. Using aero for understeer (front wheels lose grip) or oversteer (losing rear grip either due to too much speed or loss of mechanical grip) is not a cure-all on the track as corners are different depending on radius, elevation, and the roadway prior and aft to the corner determining the proper line...it's all about compromise.

And to take it even further you comment on my signature (woo-hoo maturity has taken leaps and bounds in the internet)...i actually make it a point to only show it once per thread i post in. check around.

yeah please don't f*ck around with me anymore...your judgmental (Hot Ricer Nights ring a bell?) immature and technically lacking posts used to judge the aesthetics of someone else's car are making my fingers tired from typing.

 

EXACTLY. That's were I get my info. Ricer shows. How about SPEED SECRETS or SPEED SECRETS 2 by Ross Bentley? Read them? How about DRIVE TO WIN by Carroll Smith?

GFYS.