Why Add a Wing to a Car That Understeers
06-13-2004, 09:01 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why Add a Wing to a Car That Understeers
Just a casual observation. I do not understand why Z owners are adding a rear wing to a car that has significant understeer out of the box. The rear wing adds downforce (grip) to the rear wheels, making the understeering problem worse. It seems that the mod is more for show than go.
06-13-2004, 09:22 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: new york
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
... depends on what the car is used for.....
and a wind doesnt really do too much untill youre hitting high speeds.... and usually when youre driving fast youre not turning... so that grip on the tires helps you from spinnin out
and a wind doesnt really do too much untill youre hitting high speeds.... and usually when youre driving fast youre not turning... so that grip on the tires helps you from spinnin out
06-13-2004, 09:31 PM
#3
wings in general are laughable as a performance modification. few here have an actual tested and tuned wing. and even so, you need atleast 45+mph to really have enough wind to even dream of noticing a difference. youd be hard pressed to find a situation where you got understeer at 45mph, without sliding straight through the turn anyway.
06-14-2004, 08:35 AM
#6
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would bet that 99% of the wings that are put on cars are for cosmetic reasons only. I would also bet that almost none of the wings out there were actually designed with aerodynamics in mind. Sure some of them copy actual racing wings from real race cars, but they are most likely non-functional at best, and more likely just mess up airflow rather than improve it. Since its probably only noticable at triple digit speeds, there is no real harm.
06-14-2004, 09:26 AM
#7
Registered User
You don't need to bet... we know it for sure! I don't know no one wing which has any spesifications/aerodynamic data... If people buy if for performance, the'd like to know what exactly to expect from wing... since people buying them anyway even when no specs provided... we know people buying them for looks. And to provide any daya, wings need to be tested in wind tunels... why would manufacturers do that? To find out that most popular designs are the worst performance pigs?
Not sure about nismo thing... they suppose to be real sport thing... but judging by they other products (like nismo oil cap) I tend to think nismo are not better than rest of the wings... just more expensive
Not sure about nismo thing... they suppose to be real sport thing... but judging by they other products (like nismo oil cap) I tend to think nismo are not better than rest of the wings... just more expensive
Trending Topics
06-14-2004, 10:07 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Irvine
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for the chick man dont' you know the girls dig the guys with the biggest spoilers duh?!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahha at least thats what going around beside a lot of STD's. J/k i"m wrong. I shopuld be gone
06-14-2004, 10:59 AM
#10
your onto something, one of my female friends asked why I didnt get a wing, cause they look so cool.
shes very excited about having a wing on her saturn. and extremely happy that her bf's accord has a wing as well.
owell; Id say Im happy with having less resistance, but that doesnt really matter to me either, fastest Ive ever gone was 133; it was only once. and I cant think of any good reason to ever go that fast again.
shes very excited about having a wing on her saturn. and extremely happy that her bf's accord has a wing as well.
owell; Id say Im happy with having less resistance, but that doesnt really matter to me either, fastest Ive ever gone was 133; it was only once. and I cant think of any good reason to ever go that fast again.
06-15-2004, 04:15 PM
#13
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Nismo spoiler was actutually designed by the same company that designs the Gran Turismo video games (don't remember the name of the company).
They have a "VR" wind tunnel that they designed the entire Nismo kit upon. I read an article about the development of the kit somewhere, and its not really designed to provide significantly more downforce, but it also doesn't create that much drag either. Basically a zero-loss cosmetic upgrade.
Some wings however will increase drag, thereby reducing top speed drivability.
They have a "VR" wind tunnel that they designed the entire Nismo kit upon. I read an article about the development of the kit somewhere, and its not really designed to provide significantly more downforce, but it also doesn't create that much drag either. Basically a zero-loss cosmetic upgrade.
Some wings however will increase drag, thereby reducing top speed drivability.
06-15-2004, 06:11 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
06-15-2004, 07:41 PM
#15
Great explination Nuff.
wings & spoilers are meant to "spoil" the air flow over the car.
most production cars and hatchbacks are shaped similar to an airfoil. with the air flowing over the top of the car, there is a tendancy for the rear to lift, simply due to the fact that the air flowing over the top of the car is faster than the underside.. there is a negative pressure zone, near the back of the car... a spoiler produces a separation of the air flow, which increases the air pressure over the rear end ..
true spoilers will affect drag..slightly, but at different locations over the car.. a simple deck spoiler might decrease drag over the roof by changing the overall air flow characteristics...but it will increase drag near the rear due to the reduction in the pressure on the rear end of the car...( the longer air can stay attached to a surface, generally the less drag.)
if its understeering, there are ways you can fix that. i.e. sway bars. aggressive suspension mods..
check out Race Car Vehicle Dynamics from William and Douglas Milliken .. its an SAE text book..
--Cheston
wings & spoilers are meant to "spoil" the air flow over the car.
most production cars and hatchbacks are shaped similar to an airfoil. with the air flowing over the top of the car, there is a tendancy for the rear to lift, simply due to the fact that the air flowing over the top of the car is faster than the underside.. there is a negative pressure zone, near the back of the car... a spoiler produces a separation of the air flow, which increases the air pressure over the rear end ..
true spoilers will affect drag..slightly, but at different locations over the car.. a simple deck spoiler might decrease drag over the roof by changing the overall air flow characteristics...but it will increase drag near the rear due to the reduction in the pressure on the rear end of the car...( the longer air can stay attached to a surface, generally the less drag.)
if its understeering, there are ways you can fix that. i.e. sway bars. aggressive suspension mods..
check out Race Car Vehicle Dynamics from William and Douglas Milliken .. its an SAE text book..
--Cheston
Originally posted by nuff
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
06-15-2004, 08:29 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Canada B.C.
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by nuff
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
If you consider that a lot of people here are lightening their cars and most of the weight lost if from the rear axle of the car, let's say space saver wheel, carbon fiber hatch with lexan window instead of glass. It's going to make the rear end of the car a lot lighter and it's going to decrease your exit speed, since you cannot apply as much power without spinning the wheels. But if you add a wing you'll be able to have the benefit of heavy rear end (down force generated by the wing), but without the negatives.
Hope it helps
06-16-2004, 05:45 AM
#17
Registered User
Originally posted by nuff
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
I've read a bit about the big rear wings and the effect they have on FR car like even one which understeers like 350z. It is to help keep the cars rear end down when you are exiting corner, which is going to allow you to apply more power to the ground without spinning the wheels and it's going to increase your exit speed.
06-16-2004, 09:20 AM
#19
Registered User
Being an F1 fan I know the purpose of spoiler/wing is to create downforce to keep car glued to the track on high speeds. F1 car can go upside down (driving on the ceiling) at 180mph if I remember well. All that downforce became a liability when going fast on straight. So in F1 they adjust downforce from high on twisted tracks to low on fast tracks with long straights... Again, all the airdynamics start working at 100+mph, I recon.
I'm sure grand-am series Zs need wings to do better, but for street driving it's useless and just increase your drag. I think it's not smart to buy SOME wing and hope that it'll help SOMEHOW... And since no aerodynamic data available for any of wings for the Z, that's exactly what all wing owners are doing!!!
I'm sure grand-am series Zs need wings to do better, but for street driving it's useless and just increase your drag. I think it's not smart to buy SOME wing and hope that it'll help SOMEHOW... And since no aerodynamic data available for any of wings for the Z, that's exactly what all wing owners are doing!!!
06-16-2004, 09:22 AM
#20
Registered User
Also as original post question hints if you put really working wing in rear, you'll need to balance the front's downforce otherwise you could find out hard way what aerodynamics is all about... Ever seen flying F1/IRL/Cart cars? 