How to do Twins right the first time!!!
10-21-2006, 10:28 AM
#121
Originally Posted by SuperSportZ
I have build small block chevy's before and when making high horsepower engines I have always switched to a 4340 forged crank for strength. Is the stock crank on the VQ strong enough? I dont even know what its made of but everyone is using forged rods and pistons but never says anything about the crank. Just curious. I know a small block and a VQ are very different engines but a lot of stock small blocks back in the day had 8.5:1 compression stock so I would assume if someone were to build the block and add the TT later the engine should perform alright albeit with a lot less power than stock.
I also caught your second question. No The ECU doesn't need programming, but it worth considering, but you do need some mechanical fuel control if you opt this way, eg adjustable boost dependant fuel pressure regulator(fpr) be sure you can calculate your new fuel pressure with the bigger inj and adjust the fpr to the correct psi so your system isn't running to rich or lean. I would also suggest a pressure guage to measure, preferably, at the rail.
10-30-2006, 04:29 PM
#122
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I have saved enough money to either go a short block or a stroker. I have read your post on how to do twins right the first time. I have to admit I don't know too much about cars and I try reading up on it as much as I can. I live out in Southern California and if I decide to have it done I am going to have someone in S.Cali doing it. My question to you is 1) since I don't know too much about cars should I rebuild my engine? 2) if I rebuild my engine can I still use my car as a daily driver? 3) how much all together approximately to rebuild the engine -- is $10,000 enough or should I wait and save more?? 4) would you be interested by calling a shop and asking questions that I would not know to ask to see if this place is reputable?? of course I am willing to pay you for your time. If not that's ok but can you type me a list of things I need to ask -- kind of like a list for Car Modification for Dummies again I will pay you for your time. I think its wise for me to ask someone like yourself first before going to modify my car anymore.
Currently: engine mod 1.APS TT (smoking issue though -- don't know why). 2.Nismo CAMS. 3.Exedy carbon clutch. 4.HKS engine management
Currently: engine mod 1.APS TT (smoking issue though -- don't know why). 2.Nismo CAMS. 3.Exedy carbon clutch. 4.HKS engine management
10-30-2006, 07:46 PM
#123
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Hey there,
If you live in Southern California, I would encourage you to go visit Sam at GT Motorsports. He is located in Rancho Cucamunga, and has a plethora of knowledge and experience for exactly what you are looking for.
His shop address:
GT Motorsports at: 909-481-1601
9481 Hyssop Drive Rancho Cucamonga CA 91730
He will help you out!
-TODD
If you live in Southern California, I would encourage you to go visit Sam at GT Motorsports. He is located in Rancho Cucamunga, and has a plethora of knowledge and experience for exactly what you are looking for.
His shop address:
GT Motorsports at: 909-481-1601
9481 Hyssop Drive Rancho Cucamonga CA 91730
He will help you out!
-TODD
Originally Posted by Roughdragon
I have saved enough money to either go a short block or a stroker. I have read your post on how to do twins right the first time. I have to admit I don't know too much about cars and I try reading up on it as much as I can. I live out in Southern California and if I decide to have it done I am going to have someone in S.Cali doing it. My question to you is 1) since I don't know too much about cars should I rebuild my engine? 2) if I rebuild my engine can I still use my car as a daily driver? 3) how much all together approximately to rebuild the engine -- is $10,000 enough or should I wait and save more?? 4) would you be interested by calling a shop and asking questions that I would not know to ask to see if this place is reputable?? of course I am willing to pay you for your time. If not that's ok but can you type me a list of things I need to ask -- kind of like a list for Car Modification for Dummies again I will pay you for your time. I think its wise for me to ask someone like yourself first before going to modify my car anymore.
Currently: engine mod 1.APS TT (smoking issue though -- don't know why). 2.Nismo CAMS. 3.Exedy carbon clutch. 4.HKS engine management
Currently: engine mod 1.APS TT (smoking issue though -- don't know why). 2.Nismo CAMS. 3.Exedy carbon clutch. 4.HKS engine management
10-31-2006, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by going deep
How to do Twins right the first time!!!
Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that
Or for that matter, doing forced induction right the first time whether its a single turbo or SC.
Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.
First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!
If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...
I would buy the following in this order...
Buy the following in this order...
1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.
2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...
3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...
4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.
5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.
Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.
6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.
7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.
NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts
8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT. Labor costs of pulling and swapping your engine and installing your TTs, is now cheaper than doing those items separately.
9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.
10. So, you read this far and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.
Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:
Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors
Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".
Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that
Or for that matter, doing forced induction right the first time whether its a single turbo or SC.
Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.
First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!
If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...
I would buy the following in this order...
Buy the following in this order...
1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.
2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...
3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...
4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.
5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.
Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.
6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.
7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.
NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts
8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT. Labor costs of pulling and swapping your engine and installing your TTs, is now cheaper than doing those items separately.
9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.
10. So, you read this far and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.
Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:
Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors
Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".
Most appreciative, if you would update us on your experiences, thus far, as you were one of the earlier few with whp in the 500/s on stock sleeves.
Any feedback that you offer us would be extremely helpful.
Thank you in advance.
Best
G
11-01-2006, 05:37 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
Ernie, you began this thread 03-03-2005, 17 months ago and I noticed that you rebuilt with Forged Internals with stock sleeves. You roadster dynoed at 500whp - 550whp; I think that many of would like to know how your VQ is fairing.
Most appreciative, if you would update us on your experiences, thus far, as you were one of the earlier few with whp in the 500/s on stock sleeves.
Any feedback that you offer us would be extremely helpful.
Thank you in advance.
Best
G
Most appreciative, if you would update us on your experiences, thus far, as you were one of the earlier few with whp in the 500/s on stock sleeves.
Any feedback that you offer us would be extremely helpful.
Thank you in advance.
Best
G
we are rebuilding a longblock for Ernie, with his Pauter rods (replacing the ones that are damaged, if there is any damage)+ Arias ED pistons, ARP 1/2" head studs +HKS headgaskets, and rebuilt stock heads.
We now know SO much more about these motors, that we can build them to be much more reliable and consistant. Plus, the 3-4 month wait time is a thing of the past, as we have several motors in different stages of machining and the build process at all times, to ensure our turnaround time can't be beat!
He put tons of miles on that motor, maybe I can get him to sign on and comment in detail...
TODD
Last edited by 350zDCalb; 11-01-2006 at 05:39 AM.
11-01-2006, 12:44 PM
#126
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Sorry to hear that; did it happen on the street or tracks? Does he recall what he was doing just before the mishap.
Do keep us informed when you determine the cause of the break down. Are you planning to resleeve, this time around
Thanks for the update.
G
______________________
and the rpm extremes
Do keep us informed when you determine the cause of the break down. Are you planning to resleeve, this time around
Thanks for the update.
G
______________________
and the rpm extremes
11-10-2006, 07:33 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by GMADD
I'm not sure as the turbos aren't the same size.You might want to tell the installer to make a note of this.
11-16-2006, 05:41 PM
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Okay, read thru this entire thread.
I have been successful with negotiating (with the wife) for getting funded to FI my Z. I am looking to go with twins. Using real dollars today, could someone in the know give me a reasonable range to expect to spend for the following (including approximate labor cost)...
Built short block
JWT Twins
5MT VB upgrade
Plus necessary electronics & guages (other misc. parts).
What I am after is a daily driven (i really mean daily) Z with about 400-450 to the rear wheels.
I have been successful with negotiating (with the wife) for getting funded to FI my Z. I am looking to go with twins. Using real dollars today, could someone in the know give me a reasonable range to expect to spend for the following (including approximate labor cost)...
Built short block
JWT Twins
5MT VB upgrade
Plus necessary electronics & guages (other misc. parts).
What I am after is a daily driven (i really mean daily) Z with about 400-450 to the rear wheels.
11-16-2006, 05:54 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by HDPD350Z
Okay, read thru this entire thread.
I have been successful with negotiating (with the wife) for getting funded to FI my Z. I am looking to go with twins. Using real dollars today, could someone in the know give me a reasonable range to expect to spend for the following (including approximate labor cost)...
Built short block
JWT Twins
5MT VB upgrade
Plus necessary electronics & guages (other misc. parts).
What I am after is a daily driven (i really mean daily) Z with about 400-450 to the rear wheels.
I have been successful with negotiating (with the wife) for getting funded to FI my Z. I am looking to go with twins. Using real dollars today, could someone in the know give me a reasonable range to expect to spend for the following (including approximate labor cost)...
Built short block
JWT Twins
5MT VB upgrade
Plus necessary electronics & guages (other misc. parts).
What I am after is a daily driven (i really mean daily) Z with about 400-450 to the rear wheels.
I'l be out in Vegas tomorrow to go see Dane Cook at Caesar's Palace!
We sell way more longblocks than shortblocks, as we sell them fully timed and assembled, and offer every option under the sun...here is a popular motor (capable of a safe 550-600rwhp-unsleeved)
This motor will be more than capable of 550-600 wheel horsepower, basically, the weak link will be the stock block (unsleeved)..we have a sleeving option as well for more power. Oversized head studs are also recommended for numbers over 500whp. (price including the 1/2 studs- realize these go for upwards of $800 installed, we include them in this motor pricing option for approx. $550 upgrade!)
Pistons – Arias Extreme Duty 9:1 CR (estimated power rating above 1300-1500rwhp!)
Rods- Eagle
ARP hardware- Main studs
½” head studs, block machined, installed with use of timeserts, torqued down to 100ft lbs
overhaul gaskets- every gasket new from Nissan
Headgaskets: HKS- stopper gaskets
rear main seal
main bearings
rod bearings
thrust washers
machine block (with use of torque plates)
balancing
polish crank
redeck heads and block- to ensure mating surfaces between the block and the heads are exact
machine heads to accept larger head studs
clean parts- prep before assembly- clean oil channels, outer surface, etc.
rev-up oil pump- 18% improved efficiency over stock
Cams- GTM turbo spec cams
Headwork- none
Valves- stock
Springs- stock
motor assembly – timed, with front and rear timing cover installed
head assembly- rebuilt with new valve stem seals
Our price: $7000!!!
$2500 core charge (refunded when we receive your motor)50% of the motor built price will be due before we begin building the custom motor, the remainder +core charge will be due upon shipping. Upon receiving your motor, undamaged, we will refund the $2500 (less our freight shipping costs) *freight charges range from $120-$200-you can repackage your engine using our crate and straps—saves some trouble and money in shipping-
A few ways that we are different:
-we include ARP main and head studs in our engine pricing
-we use Arias Extreme Duty pistons, good for extremely high power levels
-This complete package will come fully timed with front and rear timing covers installed. (will save you time and money when swapping motors), simply pull off a few sensors and this one will be ready to drop in.
I’ll be happy to price out additional upgrades, let me know what you would like. We can omit certain upgrades to lower the costs and the price.
Call me with any questions: 505-480-1923 Todd Pickman, BuiltZMotors.com
11-21-2006, 04:58 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by 350Zzzz
Todd,
What is the low-down on Ernie's block; he had forged internals and yet it blew?
G
_____________
What is the low-down on Ernie's block; he had forged internals and yet it blew?
G
_____________
not sure yet, it is in transit to us..we'll tear it down and keep you posted!
-TODD
11-26-2006, 01:56 PM
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what exactly is a tourqe plate..i have never heard of them before this thread....also basicaly if your looking at 500-700whp you should look at the 9.1.1 pistons and if you plan on putting more down look at the 8.5.1 pistons. also to run the oversized headstuds would you need to drill out the holes and then retap them?? is it possible to run 800 hp on a stock sleeved car bored .02 over?? sorry for all the questions...just trying to learn
11-26-2006, 07:26 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by huffin-Z
what exactly is a tourqe plate..i have never heard of them before this thread....also basicaly if your looking at 500-700whp you should look at the 9.1.1 pistons and if you plan on putting more down look at the 8.5.1 pistons. also to run the oversized headstuds would you need to drill out the holes and then retap them?? is it possible to run 800 hp on a stock sleeved car bored .02 over?? sorry for all the questions...just trying to learn
we run 1/2" head studs in most of our motors, this provides better clamping force for the heads and combats cylinder head lift. We tap the holes and install timeserts steel inserts.
hope that helps
TODD
11-28-2006, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by going deep
How to do Twins right the first time!!!
Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that
Or for that matter, doing forced induction right the first time whether its a single turbo or SC.
Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.
First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!
If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...
I would buy the following in this order...
Buy the following in this order...
1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.
2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...
3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...
4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.
5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.
Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.
6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.
7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.
NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts
8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT. Labor costs of pulling and swapping your engine and installing your TTs, is now cheaper than doing those items separately.
9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.
10. So, you read this far and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.
Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:
Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors
Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".
Okay, first of all I am talking about Twin Turbos, not doing "twins". There's other websites for that
Or for that matter, doing forced induction right the first time whether its a single turbo or SC.
Now, some background...as many of us Z owners striving to seek more and more power out of our stock engine, I decided to buy a GReddy TT kit. Had it professionally installed and about a month later...catatrophic engine damage. I broke connecting rod #2 and subsequently it put two windows in my block. So, I decided do it right and do a forged internal build up and I am only days away from finally have it done. But this thread is not about MY build up, its about YOUR build up. I have put together a good plan on how to go about an engine build up AND forced induction to your Z.
First, the price of admission. For those of you that would like to go Venture in the land of boost, the price of admission is a steep one....but well worth the cost!!!
If I had to do it all over....to minimize the time your Z is in the shop and to minimize the TOTAL labor costs and not risking blowing an engine...
I would buy the following in this order...
Buy the following in this order...
1. A short block, this is basically just an engine w/o heads and a crank. See item 1. Since the block is brand new, you don't have to worry about buying a used short block and how it became a used short block. Believe or not, the small block will cost only about 1300. I say only, because this will become your build up engine. From here, you can sleeve it with AEBS only if you plan to exceed 600rwhp. Once you're reaching these power levels, you are in uncharted terroritory that less than a handful have ventured into. This of course will be inherently risky to venture where no one else has any experience.
2. Next, you buy a crankshaft. item 27. This will cost you about 550. Now, that you have a block and crank, you can get the bearing codes for the rods and mains and...
3. Buy the 12 rod bearings item 25 (there sold in halves) and order the 4 main bearings. This will only set you back about 200. You got off easy in this step. But there's more...
4. Now, pistons and rods. You shouldn't spend more than 2k here if you shop around. My suggestion would be to stay less than 9.5:1 compression ratio. In the simplest terms here...the lower the compression ratio, the higher psi you can run. The trade off, there would be a little more of a delay in reaching your peak hp in your power band. But, you will be less likely to run into detonation issues. Personally, I wanted 9:1, but ended up with 8.6:1 due to supply issues of pistons.
5. Okay, now you have a short block, crank, rods, bearings, and pistons. But a couple more internal parts to buy, ARP head studs and main studs. These should run you about 450 for the studs. There are 16 head studs and 16 main studs.
Now, you have reached a point where you can ship these parts to a reputable builder and they can build your engine. Make sure this shop has built one before and their machine shop has worked on a VQ-35DE. THIS IS CRUICIAL.
Now they can double check the clearances of your bearings and you have a "built" bottom end engine. One more thing to possibly consider in this step is to get a thermo coat on your pistons and bearings. There is debate on the longevity of the coat, but it doesn't cost too much though. Whats another few hundred bucks.
6. Okay, now this is the step, not step 1, is when you buy your favorite TT or single Turbo or Super charger that you have been having dirty fantasies about when no one is looking. Depending on the brand, each will have something or another you must buy separately. If you've made it this far, you would have researched the shortcomings of your particuler kit. At this point you should consider thermo coating your turbo exhaust manifolds and exhaust turbine. This will allow you to keep engine temps down and keep the hot gases inside hot.
7. Now, you are in a really good position to start your build. But, a few more things to buy...of course. There's always something else to buy! But, the good news is that the remainder of the stuff is usually kept in stock.
NGk plugs...75
boost controller...450
Gauges....300-1200 (depending on number and type, + install)
Clutch....1k-2k (depending on brand, and you might as well do it while the engine is out)
Fuel sys upgrade...1k (or it you get APS, its in the price tag already)
Larger fuel injectors...500
Thermal coating.....300 This could be on pistons, bearings, or turbo "hot" parts
8. Once you get back your "built" engine, which would probably take 6-8 weeks if you're lucky. You can now drop off your Z at a good and reputable shop, and they can swap out the engines and install your TT at the same time. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD ESTIMATE OF ALL COSTS INVOLVED AND GET IT IN WRITING ALONG WITH A COMPLETION DATE!!! Okay, enough with the yelling, lets continue. From here, this should take less than a month. So, your Z sat in a shop for less than a month and you have a built engine with TT. AND you were able to minimize downtime, costs, and you even spread out the costs of buying parts and the TT. Labor costs of pulling and swapping your engine and installing your TTs, is now cheaper than doing those items separately.
9. What do you do with your original short block? No, it does not become a new table in your nook by your kitchen!!! You will be able to sell it to the next guy. And he can still follow the plan I just laid out.
10. So, you read this far and now you are thinking I'm nuts or maybe the price of admission is very high. Well, you're right on both accounts. No, but seriously, this is the best way to go about it especially if....
a. You don't want to have your Z in a shop for 2-3 MONTHS
b. Your Z is a daily driver
c. Dont think you can take a short cut and just do TTs on stock internals. Come on now, that engine puts down 235rwhp and not designed to handle 350+rwhp!
d. You can't wait to read my kill stories again. Sorry, got off topic.
Now for the short list, yes it does exists. If you don't want to listen to the advice above, at least buy these at the bare minimum:
Connecting rods
Pistons
ARP Main studs/Head studs
Rod+Main, Bearings
Overhaul Gasket Kit
Rear Main Oil Seal
NGK one step colder plugs
Boost gauge
Oil Press gauge
EGT Gauge
AFR gauge
Clutch Upgraded
And the following depending on boost levels:
AAM Fuel Return System
Bigger fuel injectors
Okay, you survived reading my post. I hope I have taught you a couple of things along the way and as always I more than welcome questions, comments, corrections, and money. J/K. We are all here to learn about those wonderful little money pits we call "Our Zs".
wow!!
11-28-2006, 09:04 PM
#136
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Funny when Going Deep (Ernie) wrote this a few years back...since then, our company, BuiltZMotors has emerged... eliminating ALL of these headaches!
The times when one would have to have their car down for 2 months for a built motor are over! We have shipped several motors to customers who begin pulling their motors a few days before their built motor is set to arrive, install the motor in a few days... and have their car up and running with all of one week downtime!!!!
come a long way
The times when one would have to have their car down for 2 months for a built motor are over! We have shipped several motors to customers who begin pulling their motors a few days before their built motor is set to arrive, install the motor in a few days... and have their car up and running with all of one week downtime!!!!
come a long way
11-28-2006, 11:01 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
Funny when Going Deep (Ernie) wrote this a few years back...since then, our company, BuiltZMotors has emerged... eliminating ALL of these headaches!
The times when one would have to have their car down for 2 months for a built motor are over! We have shipped several motors to customers who begin pulling their motors a few days before their built motor is set to arrive, install the motor in a few days... and have their car up and running with all of one week downtime!!!!
come a long way
The times when one would have to have their car down for 2 months for a built motor are over! We have shipped several motors to customers who begin pulling their motors a few days before their built motor is set to arrive, install the motor in a few days... and have their car up and running with all of one week downtime!!!!
come a long way
WORLD-WIDE
01-01-2007, 09:19 AM
#140
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Originally Posted by MardiGrasMax
What are the TQ spec's for the 1/2" head studs with the inserts using ARP lube?
100 ft lbs with moly lube, 120 ft lbs with motor oil..this is on the 1/2" ..NOT the 12mm stud
-TODD