Excellent thread. For those readers who haven't already invested $$ in a twin-turbo setup, but are looking to go in that direction, here's my 2 cents: My advice is to wait and see what powerplant the 2007 Infiniti Skyline GT-R will have. The info should be available by 2006. Spy photos in the Feb. 2005 edition of "Sport Compact Car" magazine show the 2007 Infiniti Skyline (pg. 40-41). It has Infiniti badging (which does not exist in Japan) and left-hand drive. It is definitely coming to the U.S!

Current debates about its powerplant concern the Q45's VK45DE, 4.5L, DOHC 32-valve V8 vs. a twin-turbocharged version of the 3.5L VQ35DE V6. The sources at "Sport Compact Car" believe it will be the twin-turbo version of the VQ35DE. If this turns out to be true, in the future, there may well be a Nissan dealership-offered conversion kit for our 350Z's to turn them into twin-turbo's. It will likely involve a lower compression ratio, which means new rods and pistons, a new or reflashed ECU, etc., but it will be well-researched, engineered, and likely warrantied.

 

I seriously doubt that Nissan would engineer a conversion kit for our cars. That would take the entire selling point of the skyline away from it.

 

Maybe . . . maybe not. The Skyline would still be a 4 seater, with AWD, etc. . . . everything a Grand Touring car should be. And if you're correct . . . even though Nissan may not offer a "conversion kit" per se . . . what aftermarket turner or mod-friendly dealership would ignore the R&D that went into a production twin-turbo version of the Nissan 3.5L V6? These future parts, etc. could be put to good use!

 

Well, for one thing, I think its going to be a debored VQ32DETT co developed by Cosworth. Im sure there are patents and rights that would be infringed trying to copy or duplicate someone else's engine. The best you can hope for is to find a wrecked Skyline, I cant believe i just typed that, and swap that motor into our 350Z. Chances are they will mate up directly.

By that time most of the bugs with our VQ35DE will have been resolved and more options for a built motor will be available, not to mention a few companies already have, and a few others will have, crate motors for you to swap. A fully built motor would still be more ideal for high power goals if its well built and planned.

 

Actually, Cosworth are divided in two divisions: production manufacturing (owned by VW/Audi) & racing division (not owned by VW). IMHO, I think Nissan will probably de-stroke the engine instead of de-boring the engine, which will have the piston more in the hole cylinder with a higher dome design (big piston to deck clearence), and for reasons of cost effectiveness. A VQ35DE made into a shorter rod design 3.2L will make the motor a much faster revving engine & with the twin-turbo will compensate for the minor torque loss.

Also, I mentioned cost effectiveness. Why bother to make another smaller block, & piston size.. where you can destroke the motor by just changing crank & rods.

 

Hey Charles,
I really appreciate your knowledge and understanding on all this. Would you please pm me with your opinion and analysis on how the APS turbo kit (I am interested in the APS single turbo) stacks up compared to the UR turbo kit. I say pm me because this question is slightly off topic to this thread (Greddy vs. APS - but the comparison concepts/issues are the same) and also there was another thread like this regarding APS vs. UR that got closed because the discussion got too heated. I realize that the APS single turbo is not out yet, but I have been told that it will have all the good technology of the twin turbo sans one turbo and some plumbing differences. So a comparison by you of the APS twin turbo vs. the UR twin turbo should suffice. But any and all insight will be appreciated.

I am especially interested in your analysis of the UR fuel system vs. APS, but am very interested in all the issues as well. My goal is about 400 whp on 93 octane gas and stock internals and the APS single turbo kit and tall boy plenum is at the top of my list. Thanks.

 

Technosquare have a reflash for 6, 7 and 8 PSI for the greddy kit and is very safe... a few guys are putting 400+ whp (stock internals) with the 8PSI Reflash and NO extra mods... I will dyno my car 2 weeks for now with stock boost and all my mods (see sig.)

 

600hp!? 900hp!? If I was going to build a car like that, an all-wheel drive platform would be a MUST. How do you super-power guys maintain ANY control over your vehicle...unless you don't use the power.....but then why spend the money to begin with? When I had my HKS SC on my car, I found that traction was an issue even at 330 rwhp with 275 tires.

 

Speaking of the Tall Boy Plenum APS is coming out with, it's too big to use a stock (or i assume aftermarket of the same size) strut bar, so is APS going to come out with a strut tower bar to mate with the Tall Boy, or will we have to resort to using the Stillen strut tower bar as it runs in front of where i assume the plenum would reside? And Amen on getting a third review of the PE setup to compare to these two...

 

Nice thoughts, but Nissan built the Z with a certain budget in mind. A loaded up roadster already tops out over $40k. Nissan won't push into a higher segment with this car. The Skyline will be an Infiniti, I believe, and will be a distinct step up from the Z without any "trickle down".

 

From the indications of the spy reports, that Skyline is going be over $60K and no faster than a bone stock APS TT Z. Quite frankly, 450crank HP is pretty weak. That will probaly be less than 400whp, given the AWD drivetrain losses. Not worth it for the money...IMHO...at least in terms of performance per dollar.

 

For that amount of money you might as well just buy a new Z06 Corvette with 500hp. Est. price is $60,000. At least you know it will be a strong motor and really easy to upgrade, and parts will be cheaper since it is american. I like the way they made the scoop before the hood. The modifed body from the 2005 to the 2006 makes the new Z06 look like a ferrai spyder. Have pics of what it will look like and my new mag at the house if anyone wants to see. They said this is forsure how it will look and how much hp it will have. 0-60 in the 3's.

 

I was told the price tag for the Z06 will be in the 70's. I obtained that info from the LA Car Show.

 

Yea but it will never be a Z

 

Hey Charles,
I really appreciate your knowledge and understanding on all this. Would you please pm me with your opinion and analysis on how the APS turbo kit (I am interested in the APS single turbo) stacks up compared to the UR turbo kit. I say pm me because this question is slightly off topic to this thread (Greddy vs. APS - but the comparison concepts/issues are the same) and also there was another thread like this regarding APS vs. UR that got closed because the discussion got too heated. I realize that the APS single turbo is not out yet, but I have been told that it will have all the good technology of the twin turbo sans one turbo and some plumbing differences. So a comparison by you of the APS twin turbo vs. the UR twin turbo should suffice. But any and all insight will be appreciated.

I am especially interested in your analysis of the UR fuel system vs. APS, but am very interested in all the issues as well. My goal is about 400 whp on 93 octane gas and stock internals and the APS single turbo kit and tall boy plenum is at the top of my list. Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]



I would also like to hear the answers for all of the questions listed above. Thanks.

 

So as a final result ...what would u guys vote for !!
APS or Greddy.......... i want to get one but totaly confused now !

 

I recently priced SSR/SFR vs. APS, if you want a piggyback or standalone with the SSR, it is definately going to be more expensive. The APS setup ended up being a lot cheaper than SSR/SFR. So, I would suggest APS. With the Greddy you'd have to upgrade the fuel system. Plus, don't forget you need an exhaust, gauges, clutch/flywheel, and some new tires after a while.

 

Hmm The Greddy TT is $5,400 (W/FMIC) you can go with the Technosquare Greddy Reflash for 8psi thats $595 but you can sell the e-manege for at least $225.00 and for the Walbro fuel pump is another $100... so thats 5,400 + 595 + 100 - 225 = $5,870 and you have a 400+ RWHP Z vs $7,500 for the APS... this is w/o installetion and guages but for both kits is about the same. I know APS have other goodies like the big oil pan and some other stuff but for me is not worth it... beside the Greddy Turbos are up to more WHP than the APS. of corse this is my point of view, with both kits you will have one amazing Z to drive

 

I don't believe Greddy's 18G's will flow any more than APS' Garret turbo's (can't find the exact size on the website), both will need to be upgraded at around 800hp (Greddy, you'd go to 20G).

Yeah I started thinking about Greddy, it is actually a little cheaper (mainly because it starts off cheaper and already has the E-Manage) than SSR/SFR. Wonder why Greddy owners think APS is the same price overall as Greddy though? (not being sarcastic, I have seen a few say this)

 

Well the 18G's are bigger than the APS Garrets but I believe is not a big difference when you go to the limit of both Kits, so is more or less the same.
I believe that the Greddy owners that you refer are including the fuel system (fuel rail, return line, ect.) you can spend more money for that but is not bringing the overall to the APS kit.