Thats around what I figured
Oh man. I really hope 80WHP is enough for me!

 

Ask yourself this. Do you really want to keep this car for a good long time? Do you really enjoy racing and how do you take to losing? How often do you race and how many miles do you drive your Z everyday? Do you have a 2nd car to commute with? Do you have a backup plan if the worse case happened and you blew up your motor? Lastly, how much are you willing to throw at the car?

If I where you, id probably wait for the APS single turbo kit and see how much it will run and what it comes with. Im guessing the single will be a very safe and complete FI kit like the APS TT.

 

I don't understand this at all. There is a shop installing the Greddy TT kit for 6500 OTD. Asking for 80whp, 20k is a strech.

More importantly, I don't understand why the TT kits are more dangerous. First of all Greddy is set to 5.3 boost and the Vortech and other SC kits go up to 8lbs of boost. If you have it installed properly and A/F checked on the dyno, why is it more dangerous?

 

I never said TT was dangerous.

You didn't read the thread, he isn't asking for 80whp, he's asking if 80whp is going to be enough, if it isn't, and say he wants over 120, that's going to cost near 15k for T and 20k for TT to do it safely.

 

Oh, whoops, I am really just looking for information not disputing what you're saying, obviously you are knowledgeable.

But seriously I have read so much about blown engines and stuff with the Greddy that everyone seems to think the SC route is safer. I am asking you why? Basically I am about to take the plunge on the TT kit and I am trying to understand if it's less safe or if the TT guys were turning up the boost that's causing the problems.

 

None of us here can give you a definitive answer on that. We can all speculate on what may have caused it.

 

The mere fact that APS' engineers identified the problem and included the shielded crank position sensor wire in their kit when the other turbo kit manufacturers didn't, speaks volumes.
If that's not a convincing enough argument, why are so many non-APS F/I owners spending the money to upgrade their fuel systems with in-tank pumps and return lines when APS includes them in their kit? I view it as a simple, albeit expensive choice.

Or, is it? If you buy some other manufacturers product and end up adding the fuel system upgrade, blow-off valve, and fuel pressure regulator, there's not that much difference.

My .02

 

Wow now Im even more unsure what to do!
Why would a single turbo be safer?
ARe there any members with Greddy who have had NO problems?

 

The APS TT kit doesnt have a return fuel system. APS will be putting out a return fuel system sometime soon though.

 

I dont think he is saying that the single turbo is "safer", reather it doesnt give as much power at the twin turbo. If I were you and I wanted safe reliable power that is upgradable in the future, I would go with the APS system and leave on the stock cats. This would give you alittle more then 80rwhp, but would be a very nice setup. If you ever desire more power simply put some test pipes on for a good increase.

 

Then how can their fuel system in the kit be good for 600hp? I thought that you could not go over 370rwhp without a return.

 

I have the greddy kit with no problems and extremely happy with it. I do not have the crank sensor wire,and I am pushing quite a bit of HP. As for the fuel system on these kit, each one was build for a specific reason. Out of the box all of them seem to work great. The reason I bought the greddy is for the room to expand, So yes I will have to upgrade the fuel system. As for the single turbo system I would not say its safer or better, just simple and much cheaper because there is less parts. You can blow up your engine with any kit wether it be a turbo or supercharger, just give it a bad tune. My suggestion on a kit if you are looking for a 80rwhp is to buy the greddy kit (price mainly), a walbro 190hp fuel pump so you don't need to go crazy with a return, and have TS build you a fuel map for 8psi on the 440 injectors and not use the emanage. you would be looking at less then 8k with install considering I saw a shop offering 6500 installed for the greddy kit and a gain of about 100rwhp safely with no other mod. Thats less then the price of the APS kit. just my .02

 

there fuel system is not good for 600rwhp. Its quite misleading. There injectors are no bigger then greddy 440. It just sound bigger because they rated them at a higher fuel pressure.

 

I didnt mean 600rwhp, I meant 600 crank HP. Even if they are the same, I doubt that APS is lieing

 

I wouldn't say aps is lying, just stretching the truth. 600 crank hp is about 498 rwhp with a 17% drive loss. Those injectors will max out way before then.

 

Linear force is measured in pounds. Rotational force is measured in foot pounds or torque. Horsepower is simply power, a metric for the energy generated.

Torque is what will break things in the motor. TT setups will make more torque because they reach full boost earlier then centrifugal SCs. The torque line on a dyno, for a centrifugal SC, like the Vortec and ATI, are almost flat lines from 3000 rpms to redline. What this means is there is less increase in force on the motor's internals to break them. The motor is simply spinning faster as it increases in rpms to make more power, but its making about the same amount of torque.

A single turbo would not be much safer then a TT IMO because it makes almost as much torque and it all comes on when the turbo spools up.

A centrifugal SC is still, IMO, the safest of all the FI choices, as far as stress on the stock internals. But there are many other factors to consider, like the crank angle wiring that APS said affects some 350Zs and not others.

 

i wouldn't necessarily use the word "safely", can be a bit misleading...
true what was said earlier, a bad tune can wreck any FI'd Z... but the internals are lacking, the rods are bif toothpicks, some have been lucky and haven't blown their motor...others are still pushing it and WILL break something...

Can't have your cake and eat it too, gotta save up the mulla...build up the internals, then install a turbo kit...if i could do it all over again, i would go aps, just because it comes with a few things i'd be buying anyway, and i like the intercooler design, other than that the greddy is cheaper, i've added many things to it, and it will definately get the job done

my car should be done by early next week (i know i keep saying this, but they are ACTUALLY building the bottom end today, as i type these words)
A list of my mods are in my sig, cost me a pretty penny or two, I'm sure it will be worth all of the stress, time, and money...

550-600rwhp will be in my very near future, to date, my 350z when it was running 8lbs was the fastest car i had EVER been in, or driven for that matter...i loved every second of it, but i could imagine a bit more in the higher gears (traction being such a problem in first and second as is)

Anyway, it costs a chunk of change to get these cars up to snuff the proper way, but like gq_626 has said before, for the cost of our investment, the built twin turboed 350z will pretty much out perform most any factory supercar on the planet!!!

yahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

 

i have the greddy and even though i have had some problems i still love the z as a fi car.so i wouldnet change a thing

 

There has already been a stock APS tt kit pushing 500rwhp on stock internals. Beyond that point the fuel system does need to be upgraded.

 

there was no fuel curve on the dyno. I would love to see it. I bet it gets pretty lean up top. I could , if I was crazy, make one pass with my setup at 13psi of boost and make a 500rwhp run with my setup. It would not be reliable and I would only do it once on stock internals. This does not mean my fuel system is good for the power. With that kind of power it would be a must to run a complete return system. Stock fuel piping and a FPR at the pump instead of were it should be close to the rails will not yeild reliable fuel pressure at all times. APS has a great setup, just not for what they say its capable of.