well said slaponte

 

I agree completely. Well put.

 

Well said....

 

Do any of these kits..... APS or TURBONETICS allow the use of DUAL Exhaust systems???? cause I have one right now????

Also If you already have a TS flash which I also do.......can or does the APS kit override these settings.... or in addition to there kit price do I need to send my ECU to TS to flash it back to stock?????

TURBONETICS will take my ECU and kill the current flash so I dont spend another 150.00.... But with there kit I have to modify or buy a new exhaust....

And what if you only want 5 PSI not 8 or 9....... I dont need 386WHP so obviously I want a kit that provides better spool up and more WHP per PSI......seems like APS will perform better at a lower boost....


330WHP is my goal......and I hope I dont have to redo a lot of my mod's cause if I do A Super charger is in my future.......

 

Interesting and novel observations slaponte and I can understand what you’re saying. Regarding Peter and his style of communication, I must say that he speaks “Australian” and to some degree, seeing he is new to this internet based communication, he writes as he speaks. Indeed, internally within APS, because we deal with so many different types of products, when we talk about a turbo for the Z, we don’t just say “turbo”, but say “dual ball bearing water cooled turbo”. This avoids any potential misunderstandings because with those words, everyone in the conversation understands fully the component and the implications of the component.

Peter (like all of us at APS) is a stickler for technical accuracy and if that comes across as marketing speak, then it’s not necessarily the intention because it is sometimes hard to differentiate. Technical accuracy is paramount in this industry because with a couple of extra words, one can avoid all manner of issues due to misunderstanding. Peter’s role is a technical one at APS and to me it shows by the high level of technically accurate information he presents. If he was a marketing dude, he would write in a more colourful fashion. Perhaps he needs to lean to write in American

That said, I do believe that mia, peter and indeed many people on forums are genuinely excited and passionate about the products they own and represent. In being so enthusiastic, they will take the extra time and effort to ensure that you guys understand whatever point they are trying to make. I know that Peter has had to hold back on many occasions in order to abide by the forum rules and to not offend other manufacturers who he has a great deal of respect for. He has been in the turbocharging industry for a very long time, knows most of the major players personally and has engineered some of the most desirable and complete turbocharger systems on the planet.

These forums are fantastic because enthusiasts from around the world can share their experiences and we all get a taste of the variety of individual flair. And it’s here where we sometimes need to be careful for each will put their case forward and defend it because they believe in it - there’s nothing wrong with people putting their case forward in a professional way.

We have a 10% Goods and Services Tax (GST) here in Australia so in my case, it’s 0.022….but in Aussie dollars…..

George

 

Neither will.

You'll need to flash it for the A/F ratio, ignition timing, etc.

Nope, the piggyback will just alter the settings i'm pretty sure.

All you have to do is get a shop to make a reverse/backwards y-pipe.

PSI is related the to the size of the turbocharger and engine. It may operate for higher HP at a lower boost...but so what? You shouldn't brag about how much boost you are running. Heck, the APS could boost LESS than the Turbonetics.

The APS has an internal wastegate I believe, so you wouldn't have to do with that kit what you would to the Turbonetics (swapping out the wastegate springs).

 

Well I'm sure you could lower the boost should you want to. I think either kit will do just fine at lower boost. Spool up however is not going to change by simply lowering the pressure. To change spool up time while leaving all other things the same you would need to use a different turbocharger.

 

Absolutely correct, the only way a true dual will work with either kit is to modify it unless you purchase the optional split pipe and APS exhaust to go with the APS kit. Otherwise both kits will require you to modify your dual exhaust or purchase a y pipe back exhaust.

 

So I guess I would be better off with the TURBONETICS KIT..... cause the only other thing I will have to do is modify my exhaust....

What I meant by the boost statement is that I would just feel better working with a kit that produces my WHP needs with a lower boost.....

Im scared to run high boost........

 

Two peoples, separated by a common language...

 

One thing you need to keep in mind is that a turbo that spools faster will - if everything else is equal - produce less HP per PSI of boost than a larger laggier (though more efficient) turbo...

There are two factors that come in to play here:

a) the smaller, quicker spooling turbo is going to heat the air more to achieve X psi. the boost pressure is there, but the density of the charge, and thus the power potential, is not...

b) the smaller, quicker spooling turbo will present more of a restriction on the exhaust side of the motor... this will mean that the cylinder doesn't exhaust/scavenge as fully, and therefore the subsequent intake charge is "dilluted"... this too further reduces power potential... and of course there is more lost hp from the piston having to push up against the additional backpressure incurred by the smaller tubine wheel/housing...

again, these generalizations are assuming that everything else is equal... you can't compare a cutting edge 61mm turbo to a 10-15 year old 66mm turbo... but if you take two turbos from the same family, both sharing the same level of aerodynamic technology, you will find this to be the case...

so if in reality, you are scared of absolute pressure numbers, you will want the largest, laggiest turbo offered... that will allow you to make X rwhp with the minimum amount of boost...

Jeff

 

Thank you..... I want the Turbonetics even more now.......

 

well, just don't forget that i said "with everything else equal"... we've seen MANY cases where brand X's turbo spools faster AND make more power (at the same boost level) than brand Y's turbo... the bottom line, if you are going with a turbo/system that is giving you more lag, make sure you're getting more power potential/efficiency in return...

I don't want to bash anybody here, but if I were filling in the blanks above, it would come out like: X = {Garrett}, Y = {Innovative, Turbonetics, Holset, IHI, ...}

 

isn't the gt35 turbo aps is using bigger than the turbo from turbonetics?

 

Here's a question that hasn't been answered yet...

How much will each turbo kit go to? When is the point they both top out and you will either need a different turbo or need to switch to another kit?

 

I was wondering that myself. I'd like 400 RWHP and wonder if I'd need to do a TT to achieve that or if one of these STs can get me there.

 

have they disclosed all the details of their included turbo? I think I remember seeing that it was ~ 60mm?

The GT35 is in that same size range... the compressor wheel on the GT35R is "61mm wheel" (61mm inducer, 82mm exducer), the exhaust wheel inducer is 68mm,exducer is 62mm... beyond the wheels, we'd need to know the a/r's of the housings on both to do a true "on paper" comparison...

 

Easily. I'm thinking they are going to top out at around 600-700rwhp, i'd like both kits to be confirmed as to where though. Especially since APS has that tall boy plenum with the 6 stock fuel injectors mounted in it.

 

I have heard from many of the top import engine builders for the 350Z that it is VERY important to have a fuel return/recirculation system. APS has such a fuel return system. Does Turbonetics?

The info that I have, such as from the current issue of Sport Z Magazine, is that the fuel system is the biggest problem with our 350Zs for running high horsepower. Sport Z Magazine also discussed and re discussed the need for the fuel return/recirculation system. The Performance Nissan 350Z Grand Am crew chief said that, specifically down several paras. from the top on the right most column on page 38, “We know for a fact the biggest issue is the fuel system design from Nissan. It is inadequate to provide greater than about 300 HP at the flywheel. It is not necessarily a lean condition, but an inconsistent fuel delivery issue.” And over on page 40, leftmost column 2nd full para. from top, “We use…(several types of fuel upgrades listed including) the same type of recirculation type (fuel) systems. Anyone capable of doing those type of things should be able to fix the problem.”

 

More Power, the Turbonetics comes with 380cc fuel injectors and fuel lines and a Walbro fuel pump.