G2FAST

APS:


Turbonetics:


OK there has been much talk about these two kits on different threads but lets compare them both together in one thread. Lets talk about price, power, torque, better set up and all other pro's/con's. Feel free to post charts and personal thoughts!!!!

Brandon@Forged

IMO, APS is going to be the better choice for those wanting over 500rwhp since it's using a piggyback instead of a reflash that the Turbonetics is using.

The Turbonetics will probably be cheaper.

I think it will turn out the way IMO other kits turned out when compared to the APS kit. The APS kit is good for those that don't want to choose the seperate components. The Turbonetics will be good for those who do want to choose certain components (diff. fuel, engine management).

Power - 380rwhp for Turbonetics
Price - $4750 for the catless version, ~$4000 for the tuner version, not sure on the high-flow cat version, probably around $4800. (Turbonetics)

accordfreak

iTrader: (15)

i'd like to see how the APS plumbing are routed beforing deciding.

G2FAST

nis350ztt great post.

Now do both kits offer a warrenty? How do the turbo's compare?

G2FAST

The above was quoted from another forum on the same thread thought it would be good to bring up.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I can answer some of these. Warranty: Not sure what APS offers. Turbonetics offers 12,000 mile/12 month no fault no hassle warranty on the entire kit. So bascially if your installer breaks something during install Turbonetics replaces it for free. As for the Turbonetics fuel system upgrade. The Turbonetics kit includes 380 CC drop in plug in injectors (similar to the PE ones) No cutting or replacing the injector harness. The stock injectors connection plug directly into the new injectors and the new injectors plug directly into the fuel rail. Turbonetics also includes a Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump and a modified stock fuel pressure regualtor that allows the base fuel pressure of ~50 PSI to be mantained when at idle, off boost, etc. For timing and injector control the Turbonetics kit uses a Turbonetics tuned ECU flash the both retards the timing and scales for the new injectors. With the Turbonetics fuel managemnt AFR is set to 11:1 from boost to redline. Numbers are 386 RWHP at 11:1 AFR on a Dynapack. The Turbonetics kit uses a 60-1 Stage V Ceramic Ball Bearing turbo. Boost comes on at about 2100 RPMs with full boost around 4000. The APS kit comes with a GT35R ball bearing unit. Boost comes on at about 2600 RPMs and full boost is seen at close to 4700. This info is based on the APS boost sheet on their page...Turbonetics data is based on the boost sheet they provided. As far as I know the base APS kit and Turbonetics kit both utilize the stock manifolds now that APS finally agrees they will hold up. Can't speak to the install time for the APS kit as I have not seen what is involved but the Turbonetics kit can be installed in roughly 10 hours.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

To add to that the Turbonetics kit does not include a oil pan and is tapped the same way the Vortech kit is. Turbonetics is working on a CAS wire replacement to include in the kit. As yet Turbonetics nor any other person who has torn down their boosted engine after several miles noticed anything tha they could call evidence of oil starvation.

tig488

iTrader: (18)

on the warranty, what if I break something while installing it, will they still replace it?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Yes sir they will....

Vic N

I wasn't aware that the APS kit used a GT35R turbo. The picture on APS's website shows an internal wastegate and a 3" inlet. I thought the GT35R had a TO4S compressor housing with the 4" inlet?

The GT35R turbo is a true steel bearing turbo, not ceramic, and combined with it's more efficient wheel, should have better spool characteristics compared to other turbos with the same power rating. The APS kit mounts the turbo down low, which will keep under hood temps lower than Turbonetics, but it is more prone to road damage. I don't know how they plan for oil return with such a lot mount, but maybe a pump? More components mean higher chance of failure IMO.

APS's 3.5" DP when used with APS's 3.5" exhaust system should have the best possible flow. I think at power levels 600hp and below, a 3" is plenty. Any bigger is over kill and your just giving up ground clearance. People have made over 800rwhp on a 3". I'm sure they could have benefited from a larger pipe, but I wanted to mention that it was done.

APS's turbo uses an internal wastegate. I don't trust internal wastegates controlling boost at higher levels that 12 psi. I heard of people with internal wastegates making power on high boost, but I also know people having problems controlling it. This is not a big issue with low boost, but it is good to know that you have components that can perform. Turbonetics has an external wastegate.

Turbonetics reflashed ECU looks very good. Looking at the dyno graphs, the a/f is perfect across the board. I was told that it didn't require a tune and is like that right off the bat. I have used everything from piggybacks to full standalones, and they are not fun if you don’t know what your doing. The Turbonetics kit makes close to 400rwhp, and you do not have to tune or cut and run wires.

This is my opinion from what I know. If anyone has anything to add, feel free.

Brandon@Forged

No, APS does use a GT35R water-cooled ball-bearing turbo, they may change it before it goes to production though.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I have heard the argument but it seems a bit misconcieved considering the the spool up of the Turbonetics kit compared to the APS. I'm not saying you're wrong but the Turbonetics kit at least according to the available graphs spools up and achieves full boost sooner...

APS

The APS intercooled single turbo system will utilise the latest dual ball bearing water cooled GT series Garrett turbocharger in the production APS turbo system.

This latest generation GT series Garrett dual ball bearing turbo charger has much faster response/spool than a conventional sleeve bearing turbocharger and is also far stronger/reliable than sleeve bearing turbos at high boost levels, another significant advantage of the true dual ball bearing Garrett GT series turbocharger.

Thanks

Peter

G2FAST

MIA good post, good information. If you can post any charts you have on the Turbonetics. Without bashing because this is an informative thread what is it about APS that you don't like?

G2FAST

Hey Peter nice to see you over here also! Do you have any charts yet on the APS single turbo kit? Any pictures on this kit so we can compare it to Turbonetics?

accordfreak

iTrader: (15)

that's nice but what are the specs on the turbo? How about a flow chart of the exact turbo you're using.

hndumafia

iTrader: (10)

wow assuming what miaplaya said about when boost is made, which i see no reason not to believe - that cleared up a misconception i had that the aps s/t would make boost quicker all the way up to full boost.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Well I don't have a flow chart for the specific compressor wheel used by Turbonetics as it is a newly desgined wheel. What I do have is a Boost/HP chart from the testing phase of the Turbonetics kit. Keep in mind this chart was with the wastegate set at 9 PSI and the AFR set to a VERY RICH 10:1. They actually saw as low as 9.5:1 during this run. Again this is only a prelim chart but should do ok for telling you what the boost response is. Just find the point where the system reachs 8 PSI. That will be the full boost and max boost point for this system. With the AFR set so rich the performance was hurt a little. BTW this is on a Dynapack. The curve on the left is boost...





Heres the APS chart to compare

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Oh and I'm not trying to bash. It would be best not to ask what I don't like about APS. It would make it a non-informative thread. My comment about the manifolds was simply to state that APS now agrees that the stock manifolds will hold up and plans to use them contrary to prior statements.

tig488

iTrader: (18)

even with the APS having the turbo much closer to the exhaust bank, its lag is still more than the turbonetics kit? hows that?