Yes , unless you become a licensed Unichip dealer. You could buy the Software from Unichip for >~$1k if you really want to do it yourself , but you better know your way around a dyno.

 

thanks for the info.
Getting the software is worth the price since you'll spend way less money only paying for dyno time compared to a shop. Based on the install prices I was quoted for the APS kit ($3000) I can only imagine what they'll charge for tuning

 

Peter, I assume that you're previous response was meant for me...

Changing the boost pressure means that you get different voltage sent to the computer from ethier a map, or mass air flow sensor, and therefore the computer should react in a different manner based on that information. That reaction should thus be less timing, and more fuel. The Unichip has it's own method of sensing Vacuum as it receives, which is why I am putting in the "MAP or mass air flow" clause. So now that we know that I am not retarded..... back to the original questions.

How much range does the MAP/Mass Air flow sensor sense before it's out of it's range. (max voltage)

And, did you guys tune the Unichip assuming that people will run more boost, and therefore put in your 'best guess' as to where the tune should be at the higher boost level?

I am been tuning and building cars for many years now, so I would appreciate if you'd just take my word that I know what I am saying when I speak.

Thanks

Chris

 

Sorry to respond for Peter on this, but guaranteed the Unichip is oblivious to the Knock sensor input , you need to tune conservatively around it. Ideally with a metal ear etc or a knock while tuning both Dyno and Road.

My basic assumption is that off boost the Unichip uses MAF input and on-boost transitons to MAP mode. In order to meet CARB ever, retaining MAF while NA would be absolutely a requirement.

 

Hey Guys
What about this (I'll doing now with gq)
APS TT hardware + Greddy e-Manage + e-01 Boost controller + AAM Fuel Return System
cause my APS running super rich condition but I can't remap the APS unichip
So I'll get Greddy e-manage for tune my APS TT KIT

This is what I saw in this forum

Greddy TT make big HP than APS but also BIG risk
1> Most 500 HP guys are Equiped with Greddy and very fineness tune work.
2> Greddy e-manage has more friendly than APS Unichip (some point)

APS make less HP than Greddy but very liable
1> I think APS TT kit equiped with Unichip but unichip not easy to tune (like me)
2> Non of APS TT Kit Blown there Engine yet

 

Correct, not very safe for the engine and can certainly lead to piston failure.

True enough what you say though constant over fueling of the engine (very rich air fuel mixtures) will cause accelerated piston to cyl bore wear as it tends to wash vital oil lubrication of the cyl bores, best avoided if possible.

Peter

 

Imho a high powered FI engine should only be tuned by a very experienced dyno tuner who has years of computer mapping experience and a true load based engine or chassis dyno otherwise you could easily end up damaging the engine.

I've seen many road tuned cars over the years and to date I've never seen a road tuned car that is anywhere near an optimum state of engine tune in terms of power or safety.

In many cases the ignition timing and fuel maps are well poorly developed, this is one technical area where I'd recommend you get your car to a real professional tuning tech or just leave the engine stock, otherwise you're taking a huge risk of damaging the engine.

Peter

 

No Chris the question was a general question for the guys reading this thread.

The MAF sensor reads between zero to 5 volts, I'm sure that you know that of course.

At APS we never guess on important tuning issues.

APS engineers measured the air fuel mixtures on all 6 cylinders at the various boost pressures that the engine runs between zero engine load and full engine load (via 6 lambda sensors mounted at the exhaust ports) in order to develop very safe air fuel ratio maps.

Thanks

Peter

 

Peter,

We are having a problem getting 2 of our APS TT cars past 10psi of boost..One car is a stock motor and will only make 9-10 max psi of boost,the other one is a lower compression motor and only makes 11-12 psi.Both cars are making around 400whp. However when we had the cars tuned,adjusting the scale on the boost settings did absolutely nothing.The tuner were unable to make the boost go up. Bot vehicle are equiped with a free flowing exhaust. What shall we do to make more boost??I am thinking that part #56 is restricting the pressure going to the wastegates and the wastegates are dumping outafter 10 psi..Unless were maxing out the turbos at 11 psi??

 

I 100% agree with you and I am not talking about street tuning. But not every experienced tuner owns a dyno...
I am talking about renting dyno time and tuning the car by a professional tuner. The person I am talking about though is not an authorized unichip dealer and since he does not own a dyno won't be "allowed" to do his magic.
But I happen to trust him more than anyone else when it comes to cars
That's my issue.

 

Yes
I having a same Problem I had a HKS EVC II Boost controller
But my Max Boost is 68.. kpa (around 10psi)
Me too seems like wastegates are dumping.....
If any one has opinon on this problem PLS. let me know...

 

Well that surprises me greatly, every competent tuner I know of on the planet (and that's over 300 specialist tuners) has either a load based engine dyno or load based chassis dyno or both in some cases, what more can I say.


No disrespect intended though if your tuner does not have a load based dyno and many years of pratical dyno experience (mapped over 500 computer controlled cars) then I say he has neither experience or sufficient knowledge to map a high powered fuel injected engine with FI, imho.


No offence intended and I understand the trust factor completely though ultimately there's no subsitute for many years of computer mapping/tuning experience on a load based dyno. One wrong stroke of the key board and you can have a disaster on your hands, for this very reason I recommend you find a very experienced dyno operator/engine tuner as this greatly reduces the chance of damaging a expensive high powered FI engine.

Hope this helps.

Peter

 

No offense intended Either, but how does one become an experienced dyno tuner...From Experience correct..Kind of like "what came first,the chicken or the egg" Makes you think huh...

 

So Peter APS has thne tuned with per cylinder Lambda sensors. Have you actually proved that the OEM Plenum provides unequitable Air dist across the cylinders both on and off boost?

WRT the "Tall Boy" Plenum to what % distribution accuracy do you target , how does this compare to the OEM design?

 

I would like to see the answer to this as well.....Could the issue by the wastegate solenoid needing to be changed?

 

so in other words you're saying that a person that works at a dyno shop and tunes cars all day long for many years but just does not have the budget to buy a dyno is not an experienced tuner but would suddenly become one if he were to buy a dyno????

With all due respect, that's crap.

Money does not buy experience....experience does.

I can tell you that 99% of the dyno's here in LA that I've gone to had horrible tuners which is the reason I am concerned.

 

[QUOTE=10secapsttz]Peter,

We are having a problem getting 2 of our APS TT cars past 10psi of boost..QUOTE]

Pm sent, either the boost solenoid is not wired correctly or not functioning (my best guess).............it's very easy to check the operation on the dyno, you should feel the solenoid pulsing when the engine is under load, good luck.

Peter

 

How can he work in a dyno shop all day long if he does not have a dyno?

Excuse me though that makes no sense at all.

The only way to get real tuning experience is to work in the trade and be trained and mentored by a competent tuner over a long period of time and then put that training into practice on a daily basis, practice makes perfect.

That's not to say that if you have a dyno that you're an expert tuner, the tool is only as good as the operator and his practical experience.

Correct, it's pratical experience with the correct tools at your disposal that counts and real experience takes hundreds of cars, particularly when tuning high performance FI engines.


I'm sure you're right and I'm also sure that many of these dynos are inertia based dynos, useless for mapping fuel injection systems because these types of dynos cannot hold any engine load at steady state or at any combination of throttle and rpm conditions.

Bottom line it takes years to become proficient in tuning high powered FI engines (like it takes years for doctors to be trained and become experts in open heart surgery) and all too often engines are damaged by inexperienced tuners or at best a less than optimum tuning result.

I wish that APS had a shop in the US so that we could invite you guys over - and in an hour demonstrate just how complex the full gambit of engine tuning really is.

There are so many more issues to tuning than simply getting the air fuel ratio, ignition timing and boost maps right.

These are the basic criteria but one must also consider transient, steady state, the variety of compensation factors such as temperature and altitude etc, individual engine characteristics, right through to engine VE, intercooling profiles, exhaust system criteria, exhaust gas constitution etc etc - the list goes on. When one does not fully understand or is not intimate with the affect all of these factors have upon the performance and durability of the engine, then the potential for a result that may disappoint the consumer increases markedly.

Optimal tuning of a high performance FI engine is hard enough for an experienced tuner with hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment at his disposal, let alone one who is less experienced with part-time access to a dyno.

An experience engine tuner must be intimate with his tools, the engine management and the particular engine.

All I am attempting to do is to assist you guys in understanding that the best and safest engine tuning goes hand in hand with the optimum state of engine tune, to compromise on this issue can and does at times have dire consequences.

If after this you still want to tune your own engine (with a part time dyno tuner) then I sincerely hope all truly goes well for you.

Thanks

Peter

 

I think what he is saying is that his tuner has worked IN a Dyno Shop for years but just does not OWN the shop or Dyno. That is completely understandable. To use your example...

A heart surgeon performs countless transplants a year IN an OR suite IN a hospital. He doesn't need to own the OR suite, hospital, or scapel to know what he is doing...

 

I don't think you're getting my point, let me try that again.
Dyno Shops have employees, people that work there and do the tuning for example.
Now if I were to work for a dyno shop that does not mean I OWN a dyno hence based on your rules I would NOT be seen as a valid tuner even though that's my job (speaking hypothetically, me personally I am not a tuner). But if I were to own a dyno and having employess doing the tuning for me I would be seen as a valid tuner hence I'd be allowed to receive the APS tuning software....that does not make sense to me.

In any case, I'm not trying to argue I just want to get the best bang for the buck.
If I have to hand over my car for a week to someone in a horrible part of LA that I don't know nor trust, pay him $3000 to install my kit because he happens to own a dyno with no warranty whatsoever I will....why because I have no other choice if I want to get an APS kit. Which makes me quite sad frankly.

How about this: Have the shops do a certification process that means they have actually passed a test and know for real (not just on paper) how to install and tune a APS kit.
Or maybe state on your site: "To install the APS TT you will need xx hours" this will give us an overall idea if we're being taken for a ride by a shop or not.

Last but not least, to come back to the original question:
Why can't the kit come with a dual setting: Low boost for everyday driving, high boost for the track. Both maps fully tuned but switchable. Since no one on this planet needs 430 whp to drive to work