ASP and boost contoller?
ASP and boost contoller?
While biding my time waiting for CARB approval, I was looking at APS's install instructions. Here is a picture from their website:
I'm guessing here, but part 56 looks like a restricter that might control boost. It looks pretty easy to substitute an electronic boost controller in place of this restricter. I had one on my Z32, and really liked being able to adjust the boost on the fly (for rain, my wife driving, etc.) The install of my APexi controller on the Z32 was fairly straight forward, anyone done this yet on the APS kit?
I'm guessing here, but part 56 looks like a restricter that might control boost. It looks pretty easy to substitute an electronic boost controller in place of this restricter. I had one on my Z32, and really liked being able to adjust the boost on the fly (for rain, my wife driving, etc.) The install of my APexi controller on the Z32 was fairly straight forward, anyone done this yet on the APS kit?
boost controller
Originally Posted by JeffesonM
I believe that with the APS kit, the Unichip serves as the boost controller. IIRC they are working on something that would allow two separate maps for high and low boost.
If you want to add your own you can
a) replace #50
b) place a boost controller in parallel with #50 to reduce boost below the Unichip map.
c) place a boost controller in series with #50 to increase boost above the Unichip map.
Either way the Unihip Map need sot be set to accomodate the max boost and available octane.
I am considering adding a "valet switch" bypass to the APS boost controller to keep my wife out of a ditch when she drives the car.
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From: Australia
Originally Posted by Alang
While biding my time waiting for CARB approval, I was looking at APS's install instructions. Here is a picture from their website:
I'm guessing here, but part 56 looks like a restricter that might control boost. It looks pretty easy to substitute an electronic boost controller in place of this restricter. I had one on my Z32, and really liked being able to adjust the boost on the fly (for rain, my wife driving, etc.) The install of my APexi controller on the Z32 was fairly straight forward, anyone done this yet on the APS kit?
I'm guessing here, but part 56 looks like a restricter that might control boost. It looks pretty easy to substitute an electronic boost controller in place of this restricter. I had one on my Z32, and really liked being able to adjust the boost on the fly (for rain, my wife driving, etc.) The install of my APexi controller on the Z32 was fairly straight forward, anyone done this yet on the APS kit?
You really need the technical capability of retarding ignition timing and to also richen up the air fuel mixtures at the identical time that you raise boost pressure ( if you just increase boost pressure only then air fuel mixtures may become dangerously lean and the ignition timing to advanced, both issues may likely cause engine detonation/engine damage) otherwise it's very likey that the engine will suffer severe engine detonation.
Particularly for the guys on 91 octane fuel, I would be extremely careful of raising the boost pressure after the engine is tuned for safety.
Peter
Interesting, so you're saying that you can not adjust boost on the fly with the APS kit?
I like to be able to have a day to day boost setting and a race track setting. In addtion on my last turbo I was using an avc-r which allows to control boost per gear allowing for lower boost launches for traction and such.
I am not very familiar with the unichip but how do you actually change boost settings with it?
I like to be able to have a day to day boost setting and a race track setting. In addtion on my last turbo I was using an avc-r which allows to control boost per gear allowing for lower boost launches for traction and such.
I am not very familiar with the unichip but how do you actually change boost settings with it?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Ottawa, Canada
I gotta admit that the APS kit is by far the best for the 350Z but its biggest problem IMO is the EMS (lack of unichip tuners and multiple maps). I don't have any UniChip dealers in my area and I am forced to wait untill the AEM unit gets released untill I can purchase the APS kit. 
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APS,
How much boost pressure does the Unichip read? Also, how much boost pressure did you guys 'guess' the tune for? There are several members who are running 12 psi. I assume that they had alot of help by tuning that you've already done.... Also, with the Unichip, how do you determine if the car is knocking, do you need some sort of external method of monitoring the knock sensor voltage??
Thanks
Chris
How much boost pressure does the Unichip read? Also, how much boost pressure did you guys 'guess' the tune for? There are several members who are running 12 psi. I assume that they had alot of help by tuning that you've already done.... Also, with the Unichip, how do you determine if the car is knocking, do you need some sort of external method of monitoring the knock sensor voltage??
Thanks
Chris
Originally Posted by APS
Just one point to seriously consider seriously before attempting to alter/raise boost pressure on turbo engines.
You really need the technical capability of retarding ignition timing and to also richen up the air fuel mixtures at the identical time that you raise boost pressure ( if you just increase boost pressure only then air fuel mixtures may become dangerously lean and the ignition timing to advanced, both issues may likely cause engine detonation/engine damage) otherwise it's very likey that the engine will suffer severe engine detonation.
Particularly for the guys on 91 octane fuel, I would be extremely careful of raising the boost pressure after the engine is tuned for safety.
Peter
You really need the technical capability of retarding ignition timing and to also richen up the air fuel mixtures at the identical time that you raise boost pressure ( if you just increase boost pressure only then air fuel mixtures may become dangerously lean and the ignition timing to advanced, both issues may likely cause engine detonation/engine damage) otherwise it's very likey that the engine will suffer severe engine detonation.
Particularly for the guys on 91 octane fuel, I would be extremely careful of raising the boost pressure after the engine is tuned for safety.
Peter
I may eventually support 2 Unichip maps , one on pump the other on Race gas/Pump+WI, since the Unichip inherently provides a switchable flash image, just not on the fly. My ideal though would be 3 maps. 91 Pump, Pump +WI, 100.
Peter, I was actually looking for a way to LOWER boost when needed. Like when my wife drives the car or if its beign serviced etc. With my Z32, I had three settings, max boost (14psi), reduced boost (daily driving around 8 psi), and by turning off the boost controller, it went down to the wastegate controlled 5psi (I think).
Since I have nothing better to do while waiting for CARB certification, I think about all aspects of this install, and just wondered if this was possible. Since I will have to use the 91 gas we have here, I have to be pretty conservetive with my install, so if a variable boost controller is risky, I'll have to be happy with a single setting and just not let my wife drive it !!!
Besides, I was looking at my dash yesterday, and there really isn't a good place to mount a controller anyway.
Alan (thinks way too much about this mod).
Since I have nothing better to do while waiting for CARB certification, I think about all aspects of this install, and just wondered if this was possible. Since I will have to use the 91 gas we have here, I have to be pretty conservetive with my install, so if a variable boost controller is risky, I'll have to be happy with a single setting and just not let my wife drive it !!!
Besides, I was looking at my dash yesterday, and there really isn't a good place to mount a controller anyway.
Alan (thinks way too much about this mod).
I posted this question to APS myself not long ago. Peter mentioned that it would be best to tune for max boost and then control your boost with your throttle position. He did not recommend using any kind of boost controller with the kit....even to dial back the boost. Here's the conversation
"Is it possible to do the map for 12 lbs and then use a boost controller to dial the boost back to a lower PSI for when I don't need the boost.....or is that a bad idea in your view.
That's not a good idea in my view, best to tune the engine and leave it alone, control the boost with your right foot, if you lower the boost then the air/fuel ratio will be compromised.
Thanks for the input. Cheers.
Steve C
No problem, happy to help out.
Peter
"Is it possible to do the map for 12 lbs and then use a boost controller to dial the boost back to a lower PSI for when I don't need the boost.....or is that a bad idea in your view.
That's not a good idea in my view, best to tune the engine and leave it alone, control the boost with your right foot, if you lower the boost then the air/fuel ratio will be compromised.
Thanks for the input. Cheers.
Steve C
No problem, happy to help out.
Peter
Originally Posted by g356gear
I posted this question to APS myself not long ago. Peter mentioned that it would be best to tune for max boost and then control your boost with your throttle position. He did not recommend using any kind of boost controller with the kit....even to dial back the boost. Here's the conversation
"Is it possible to do the map for 12 lbs and then use a boost controller to dial the boost back to a lower PSI for when I don't need the boost.....or is that a bad idea in your view.
That's not a good idea in my view, best to tune the engine and leave it alone, control the boost with your right foot, if you lower the boost then the air/fuel ratio will be compromised.
Thanks for the input. Cheers.
Steve C
No problem, happy to help out.
Peter
"Is it possible to do the map for 12 lbs and then use a boost controller to dial the boost back to a lower PSI for when I don't need the boost.....or is that a bad idea in your view.
That's not a good idea in my view, best to tune the engine and leave it alone, control the boost with your right foot, if you lower the boost then the air/fuel ratio will be compromised.
Thanks for the input. Cheers.
Steve C
No problem, happy to help out.
Peter
I understand Peter's point of view on this , he needs to limit APS liablity and there are definately plenty of bozos out there ready to F-up. But personally de-boosting should not cause any issue whatsover, you just need to know what your doing. I can't trust my wife with a 500rwhp+ car and she needs to drive it on rare occasion, sometimes in the rain. She freaks out when the traction control kicks in, as we all know it isn't exactly subtle.
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From: Australia
Guys I'm off for a short holiday to I may not be able to post unless I can find a computer close by, this tuning issue is a very misunderstood issue and deserves to be discussed in much greater detail, I will explain my thoughts on this engine tuning issue when I get to a computer over the next few days.
In the mean time here's something to think about, if you have a turbo car/engine and the boost, ignition timing, and air fuel ratio is safe/optimum (correct) for 91 octane fuel, what do you think happens if you raise the boost pressure by say 3 PSI (increase the mass air flow)?
Thanks and I will chat with you guys soon.
Peter
In the mean time here's something to think about, if you have a turbo car/engine and the boost, ignition timing, and air fuel ratio is safe/optimum (correct) for 91 octane fuel, what do you think happens if you raise the boost pressure by say 3 PSI (increase the mass air flow)?
Thanks and I will chat with you guys soon.
Peter
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From: Everywhere
I think Peter posted somewhere recently that APS is considering adding a toggle switch that can let you switch between 3 (or 4) maps, but each setting would need to be fully tuned rather than just turning down the boost and leaving the same tune in place. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that.
I don't know about the rest of you, but just the thought of my wife driving 400hp is very scary. I'd have to send her to a race school first!
I don't know about the rest of you, but just the thought of my wife driving 400hp is very scary. I'd have to send her to a race school first!
Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,517
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From: California
The power is very manageable, you need not worry about your wife driving your car unless she has a habit of flooring the pedal. My sister drove mine without a problem. Its just about how hard you floor it. I'm very impressed with the driveability. I wouldnt have two maps I like it just where its at. Good luck.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Australia
Originally Posted by kosmic
I think Peter posted somewhere recently that APS is considering adding a toggle switch that can let you switch between 3 (or 4) maps, but each setting would need to be fully tuned rather than just turning down the boost and leaving the same tune in place. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that.
This is an entire new computer development, like having four engine management computers in one computer.
This way 4 different sets of tuning maps which have seperate boost, ignition and air fuel maps to support different tuning stratagies (fuel octane) would be availabe at the flick of a swithch.
This is a very comprehensive engine management computer and obviously requires the map development/tuning to take advantage of the multiple tuning map capacity, all good.
Peter
Originally Posted by APS
Guys I'm off for a short holiday to I may not be able to post unless I can find a computer close by, this tuning issue is a very misunderstood issue and deserves to be discussed in much greater detail, I will explain my thoughts on this engine tuning issue when I get to a computer over the next few days.
In the mean time here's something to think about, if you have a turbo car/engine and the boost, ignition timing, and air fuel ratio is safe/optimum (correct) for 91 octane fuel, what do you think happens if you raise the boost pressure by say 3 PSI (increase the mass air flow)?
Thanks and I will chat with you guys soon.
Peter
In the mean time here's something to think about, if you have a turbo car/engine and the boost, ignition timing, and air fuel ratio is safe/optimum (correct) for 91 octane fuel, what do you think happens if you raise the boost pressure by say 3 PSI (increase the mass air flow)?
Thanks and I will chat with you guys soon.
Peter
Now let's pose the opposite :
What do you think happens if you "lower" the boost pressure by say 3 PSI?
Nearly the opposite should be expected. Potential rich condition and/or undertiming , either of which will result in less propensity towards detonation.
Now I would not advocate flipping a "piggy-back" boost controller between "base boost" and "under-boost" on the fly without significant road testing. An I definatley don't advocate flipping to above the tuned base boost.
All I intend to do is add a "Valet switch" which is flipped before even firing up.
I added one to my SC'd application (forced into bypass) and it works fine.
.
Originally Posted by APS
Still here.
This is an entire new computer development, like having four engine management computers in one computer.
This way 4 different sets of tuning maps which have seperate boost, ignition and air fuel maps to support different tuning stratagies (fuel octane) would be availabe at the flick of a swithch.
This is a very comprehensive engine management computer and obviously requires the map development/tuning to take advantage of the multiple tuning map capacity, all good.
Peter
This is an entire new computer development, like having four engine management computers in one computer.
This way 4 different sets of tuning maps which have seperate boost, ignition and air fuel maps to support different tuning stratagies (fuel octane) would be availabe at the flick of a swithch.
This is a very comprehensive engine management computer and obviously requires the map development/tuning to take advantage of the multiple tuning map capacity, all good.
Peter
So how is tuning handled overall then? Do we evertytime we add or remove a mod have to go back to a Unichip dealer that may or may not exist in our neighourhood and pay for a tune or is there software that we can get to do our own tune.
I don't mean to come across agressive btw but I am concerned about having a custom setup and not being able to tune the car
I don't mean to come across agressive btw but I am concerned about having a custom setup and not being able to tune the car
Originally Posted by mrtomcat
So how is tuning handled overall then? Do we evertytime we add or remove a mod have to go back to a Unichip dealer that may or may not exist in our neighourhood and pay for a tune or is there software that we can get to do our own tune.
I don't mean to come across agressive btw but I am concerned about having a custom setup and not being able to tune the car
I don't mean to come across agressive btw but I am concerned about having a custom setup and not being able to tune the car
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