Vortech Owners? Some Intercooler Questions...
I meant to add that I want to see it done on a low compression motor. also, don't ATI blowers tend to run much higher air temps than a vortech? that was just from my own experience comparing an ATI P600B to a Vortech S-trim.
I can only imagine the air temps being higher on the ATI because the smaller blower spins at like 80k vs the vortech's larger blower that spins at 45-50k speed. At least I'd guess the ATI's intercooler is working a little harder than the vortech's
I don't think water injection only would be enough to run high boost on the vortech. I mean, obviously Vortech thought it was necessary to add an intercooler even for stock 8 psi. So maybe you can run 8-10psi with water injection and no intercooler? just a guess. I't be more potent though than with the intercooler, but I don't know how you'd get the piping to bend back upward to the throttlebody in such a confined space, but I'm sure it can be done somehow
that said, I think the stock intercooler on the vortech can handle probably around 500-520whp or so before you really start running into more serious diminishing returns with adding more boost and not getting as much power for your psi levels. The stock STI and EVO intercoolers are smaller and handle 13.5-14 psi which is responsible for probably around 200hp worth of power since the low compression 4 cylinder engine isn't going to make much more than 100-120hp by itself. Of course the EVO has water spray cooling for the intercooler that you can manually use though...
In the end, a vortech with the stock pulley adds about 120 crank hp, the 3.12 adds around 145-150 crank hp, and the 2.87 pulley vortech by itself adds like crank 180 hp. The rest of the power being made on people's setups is responsible by the exhaust, cats, headers, cams, intake manifold, ignition amplifiers etc
IMO in the case of the vortech you want to leave the stock interooler and piping alone until you absolutely are making huge amounts of power like with a T-trim blower and really then should start thinking of either upgrading the intercooler OR using water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler/piping (or even both)
Otherwise, because of the vortech's nature of building boost gradually, if you have some huge-*** piping and intercooler, when the vortech is only making half of its boost or less, the big piping/intercooler will slow down the air a lot and your low end power will suffer a little. It works perfectly fine on a turbo setup to have a huge *** intercooler because the wastegate makes sure that huge intercooler is presurized at all times when at WOT and THEN blows off extra air out the wastegate. It's sorta a win/win situation there because it has more of a constant pressure even at lowish rpms instead of being generally more variable like the vortech's with low pressure at low rpms, and high pressure at higher rpms
I don't think water injection only would be enough to run high boost on the vortech. I mean, obviously Vortech thought it was necessary to add an intercooler even for stock 8 psi. So maybe you can run 8-10psi with water injection and no intercooler? just a guess. I't be more potent though than with the intercooler, but I don't know how you'd get the piping to bend back upward to the throttlebody in such a confined space, but I'm sure it can be done somehow
that said, I think the stock intercooler on the vortech can handle probably around 500-520whp or so before you really start running into more serious diminishing returns with adding more boost and not getting as much power for your psi levels. The stock STI and EVO intercoolers are smaller and handle 13.5-14 psi which is responsible for probably around 200hp worth of power since the low compression 4 cylinder engine isn't going to make much more than 100-120hp by itself. Of course the EVO has water spray cooling for the intercooler that you can manually use though...
In the end, a vortech with the stock pulley adds about 120 crank hp, the 3.12 adds around 145-150 crank hp, and the 2.87 pulley vortech by itself adds like crank 180 hp. The rest of the power being made on people's setups is responsible by the exhaust, cats, headers, cams, intake manifold, ignition amplifiers etc
IMO in the case of the vortech you want to leave the stock interooler and piping alone until you absolutely are making huge amounts of power like with a T-trim blower and really then should start thinking of either upgrading the intercooler OR using water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler/piping (or even both)
Otherwise, because of the vortech's nature of building boost gradually, if you have some huge-*** piping and intercooler, when the vortech is only making half of its boost or less, the big piping/intercooler will slow down the air a lot and your low end power will suffer a little. It works perfectly fine on a turbo setup to have a huge *** intercooler because the wastegate makes sure that huge intercooler is presurized at all times when at WOT and THEN blows off extra air out the wastegate. It's sorta a win/win situation there because it has more of a constant pressure even at lowish rpms instead of being generally more variable like the vortech's with low pressure at low rpms, and high pressure at higher rpms
Last edited by sentry65; Jan 2, 2007 at 09:18 AM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
I can only imagine the air temps being higher on the ATI because the smaller blower spins at like 80k vs the vortech's larger blower that spins at 45-50k speed. At least I'd guess the ATI's intercooler is working a little harder than the vortech's
I don't think water injection only would be enough to run high boost on the vortech. I mean, obviously Vortech thought it was necessary to add an intercooler even for stock 8 psi. So maybe you can run 8-10psi with water injection and no intercooler? just a guess. I't be more potent though than with the intercooler, but I don't know how you'd get the piping to bend back upward to the throttlebody in such a confined space, but I'm sure it can be done somehow
that said, I think the stock intercooler on the vortech can handle probably around 500-520whp or so before you really start running into more serious diminishing returns with adding more boost and not getting as much power for your psi levels. The stock STI and EVO intercoolers are smaller and handle 13.5-14 psi which is responsible for probably around 200hp worth of power since the low compression 4 cylinder engine isn't going to make much more than 100-120hp by itself. Of course the EVO has water spray cooling for the intercooler that you can manually use though...
In the end, a vortech with the stock pulley adds about 120 crank hp, the 3.12 adds around 145-150 crank hp, and the 2.87 pulley vortech by itself adds like crank 180 hp. The rest of the power being made on people's setups is responsible by the exhaust, cats, headers, cams, intake manifold, ignition amplifiers etc
IMO in the case of the vortech you want to leave the stock interooler and piping alone until you absolutely are making huge amounts of power like with a T-trim blower and really then should start thinking of either upgrading the intercooler OR using water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler/piping (or even both)
Otherwise, because of the vortech's nature of building boost gradually, if you have some huge-*** piping and intercooler, when the vortech is only making half of its boost or less, the big piping/intercooler will slow down the air a lot and your low end power will suffer a little. It works perfectly fine on a turbo setup to have a huge *** intercooler because the wastegate makes sure that huge intercooler is presurized at all times when at WOT and THEN blows off extra air out the wastegate. It's sorta a win/win situation there because it has more of a constant pressure even at lowish rpms instead of being generally more variable like the vortech's with low pressure at low rpms, and high pressure at higher rpms
I don't think water injection only would be enough to run high boost on the vortech. I mean, obviously Vortech thought it was necessary to add an intercooler even for stock 8 psi. So maybe you can run 8-10psi with water injection and no intercooler? just a guess. I't be more potent though than with the intercooler, but I don't know how you'd get the piping to bend back upward to the throttlebody in such a confined space, but I'm sure it can be done somehow
that said, I think the stock intercooler on the vortech can handle probably around 500-520whp or so before you really start running into more serious diminishing returns with adding more boost and not getting as much power for your psi levels. The stock STI and EVO intercoolers are smaller and handle 13.5-14 psi which is responsible for probably around 200hp worth of power since the low compression 4 cylinder engine isn't going to make much more than 100-120hp by itself. Of course the EVO has water spray cooling for the intercooler that you can manually use though...
In the end, a vortech with the stock pulley adds about 120 crank hp, the 3.12 adds around 145-150 crank hp, and the 2.87 pulley vortech by itself adds like crank 180 hp. The rest of the power being made on people's setups is responsible by the exhaust, cats, headers, cams, intake manifold, ignition amplifiers etc
IMO in the case of the vortech you want to leave the stock interooler and piping alone until you absolutely are making huge amounts of power like with a T-trim blower and really then should start thinking of either upgrading the intercooler OR using water injection in conjunction with the stock intercooler/piping (or even both)
Otherwise, because of the vortech's nature of building boost gradually, if you have some huge-*** piping and intercooler, when the vortech is only making half of its boost or less, the big piping/intercooler will slow down the air a lot and your low end power will suffer a little. It works perfectly fine on a turbo setup to have a huge *** intercooler because the wastegate makes sure that huge intercooler is presurized at all times when at WOT and THEN blows off extra air out the wastegate. It's sorta a win/win situation there because it has more of a constant pressure even at lowish rpms instead of being generally more variable like the vortech's with low pressure at low rpms, and high pressure at higher rpms
Just for an example of how the bigger IC and pipe helped me out
I made 13 psi at 6300-6400rpm , now I make it at 5800-5900rpm
PSI isnt every thing . Air flow will do more for you than PSI . Its a night and day difference from the stock blower and the T-trim when its given room to breath .
Oh I forgot to ad . The Procharger that did the W/M injection ...was going for high boost 15 16psi . It may work with 8-9psi and no IC .
My shop did a engine rebuild on a Z that had a ATI SC and they did W/M instead of adding a EMS for timing control
My shop did a engine rebuild on a Z that had a ATI SC and they did W/M instead of adding a EMS for timing control
Last edited by booger; Jan 2, 2007 at 10:32 AM.
yeah I'm just saying "psi" since it's harder to quantify and compare air volume other than the hp/tq it makes. But yeah, psi is kinda a moving target on a SC setup. One setup's 12 psi, isn't the same air volume as someone else's 12 psi
I think the bigger IC is probably a good idea with the T-trim, but not so sure it is for low hp stock blower 3.33 or 3.12 pulley setups. That was basically all I was saying. Even on your T-trim setup, it mainly made a difference at high rpms/boost levels right? Did you notice any change in the low end? You did the bigger IC after you already had the T-trim?
I think the bigger IC is probably a good idea with the T-trim, but not so sure it is for low hp stock blower 3.33 or 3.12 pulley setups. That was basically all I was saying. Even on your T-trim setup, it mainly made a difference at high rpms/boost levels right? Did you notice any change in the low end? You did the bigger IC after you already had the T-trim?
Last edited by sentry65; Jan 2, 2007 at 10:37 AM.
I ran a custom 31X11.2X4.5 Active Performance Cooling Intercooler on my Vortech setup but I was running a upgraded T-Trim Blower. I had custom 3" piping and Vortech Mondo BOV as well. Made 508hp @18psi on pump gas.
Here are some pics off the car:
Pics on the car:
3" Inlet/Outlets on the Intercooler.
This piping, BOV and Intercooler setup are currently for sale too, link:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240209
Here are some pics off the car:
Pics on the car:
3" Inlet/Outlets on the Intercooler.
This piping, BOV and Intercooler setup are currently for sale too, link:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240209
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