350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

back when my car was smoking...i assumed/wanted the problem to be the turbo seal...that wasn't exactly the case...i broke three ringlands on the passanger side bank...my symptoms were: the car was smoking...

Afetr doing a leakdown and discovering pressure loss on all three passenger side cylinders, the verdict was in...the motor had to come out...

Because of the untimely tragedy, I decided to prevent weeks of dowtime and do the labor myself.. (thanks SPEEDLAB for helping me out so much along the way!!!)
I pulled my motor in about five hours (actually did it myself-funny-i recall someone insulting me last month telling me i couldn't even change my own oil)-
I also disassembled the ENTIRE motor-myself---the labor was a learning experience---it was very informative and fun
When i pulled the rods and pistons out--all three on the passanger side--fractured ringlands
the three on the right are the bad ones:




took this one with my cell phone (before you crazy religious radicals get all crazy- the shirt say's "hail seitan"..it's a type of vegan food-to us vegans-it's funny)

I got a new set of arias pistons..custom specs..high boost application:
the old (3 weeks old ) arias pistons on the right..notice the much larger ringlands




I'm polishing my intercooler piping-intakes, etc...the one on the left freshly polished and buffed...oooooooooh...the one on the right...awwww-greddy flat finish


I'm polishing my front timing cover as well..very time consuming:




Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

This was a learning experience...an expensive learning experience...my motor should be ready to go back in by Wed/Thurs...and I'll begin my break-in
I will aim to put 1000 miles on the motor before dynoing..because i plan to switch to synthetic before going on the dyno-to preserve these freshly rebuilt turbos (thanks www.DEADBOLTSPEED.COM)

This time around..I'll tune for 11psi and 14...stay on the 11 as much as possible...
I hypothesize that my ECU advanced timing and detonation caused this issue...one will never know..over the past couple of weeks I have talked for hours with Sharif (thanks man... www.forgedinternals.com), Phunk, and others...

I reflashed my ECU to address the timing issue--the standard map was copied into the advanced map location-can't advance past 19degrees at peak power...plus i'll pull another 5-6 degrees with the e-manage (thanks Mike and Dave at ALTERED ATMOSPHERE)

Some of you may be aware of the issues that some of us are having with these high horspower figures on these motors...there is a cooling issue that has been melting pistons...more will surface on this phenomenon soon (this wasn't my issue, but this scares me to try to sustain 550rwhp--I think I'll be happy with 450-500rwhp or so for the time being until this issue is safely resolved)

I'm gonna run less power until that issue is resolved and until I get a standalone..I 'm getting sick of the downtime with my car (although this time around-doing the labor myself is a cool learning experience)

I'll keep you all updated- I figured I should share the story to help some of you others out there pushing the limits..all of those with forged internals and running high power..PM me if you want to share experiences..we need to be careful until all the little kinks get worked out...

tig488

iTrader: (18)

so you trashed the ringlands on arias pistons?

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

trashed... well, they broke...luckily the cylinder walls were only slightly blemished...5 seconds of honing took them back to a silky smooth feel...

i definately don't blame arias...but i upgraded to crazy high boost overkill pistons (in this motor-there is no such thing as overkill)
the ringlands broke more than likely due to detonation...

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

What were you using for tuning/timing control....e-manage I assume.

uplz4588

what CP did u get? like 8.0-1? u say crazy high boost hah it must be lower than 8.6

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

you betcha..good ol e-manage..believe me...when a tunable, tested standalone is available for this car..i'll get one

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

you would think so...

nope...13.0:1












just joking..they are 9.0:1

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

So if the e-manage was pulling timing what is the hypothesis as to why the timing caused detonation? What boost level did this occur at...16 lbs?

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

the hypothesis is the warning that surfaced a few months back..

as you know, the ecu is able to switch into 3 different timing maps..
*conservative-bad tank of gas--retard timing
*standard- we all assume this is the map we are tuning in and that the car is in under most operating conditions..about a 25-26 degree advance at 4500rmp--- (via scan tool)
*the advanced map- no one knows exactly when the ECU decides to grace us all with the presence of this map...but theoretically, the ECU can switch to this map without warning..and advance timing.,..and now, theoretically, the 8-10 degrees I was pulling with the e-manage that took me down to around 15-17 degree advance..could now be subtracting the 8-10 from say, 35 degree advance..yielding a 25-27 degree advance...which at these levels of boost and 91 octane = danger...

as always, anyone who would like to chime in to either add to my hypothesis or clarify my understanding of how the ecu works..please do

phunk

iTrader: (21)

unfortunatly not enough is known about the stock ECU for anyone to chime in with more then speculation. i cant even get clear answers by those who should know best.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

that's the downside to highly modding such a new motor...
brody was joking with me that because of all of my R&D conducted from destroying engine parts they should give me a complimentary 350z...then he added he would drive it

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

So is it possible then that some of these blown motors are occuring due to the ecu jumping to the advanced map instead of the CAS wire..... or maybe a combination of the 2? Maybe the J&S that pulls timing when detonation is detected may be the only thing to save the motor against the advanced map appearing.

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

that is the theory..

i know my car was safely tuned..running great..never saw any high egt's or lean conditions..then after running it on the 1/4 mile...started smoking...

i reflashed my ecu to at least prevent this from happening again (if that is indeed what happened)

who knows???

i know that i'll run 11 psi as a daily driver and sleep better at night and let everyone else be the R&D people for a while...i hate having my car be down!!! and it is getting pricey...
fortunately i'm doing most of the labor this time around (minus the actual building of the bottom end)

SpeedDreamTuner

Well I can't say i'm surprised. That motor always sounded bad to begin with. I don't think anything contributed to this except excessive piston to wall clearance. Acompany this with a bad tune, and it's a recipe for trash ringlands. You weren't pushing more actual power than a charged Z at sea level.

Sorry for the loss...

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

thanks for the kind words

thinking back..you heard the motor after the ringlands had busted... possibly that contributed to some of the noise that you attributed to piston slap?
in addition, the lightened flywheel and ats twin disc carbon clutch are noisy at idle...
my new pistons will exhibit piston slap on warm up..these ones have more piston to wall clearance...close to zero silicone...so they will expand and the piston slap will be eliminated/less noticeable after warm (in theory)..
"a bad tune"...no, actually it was great...some other theories of how e-manage acts with timing retard may further explain this situation
not sure what you mean by" not pushing more actual power than a charged z at sea level"
my actual numbers were probably in the neighborhood of 520-540 actual..i know of 2 other built 350z's who very recently experienced severe problems with their motors while at these same power numbers (they were at sea level with an actual of 520-520rwhp)

Let's not debate over SAE correction factors on F/I'd motors..we exhausted this topic last month

the loss isn't too major fortunately...like i said, i'm doing the labor myself..so the only damage neccesitated new pistons...but in this case- an upgrade

Guys...really, I just got bored and wanted to swap out my pistons...that's the story I should have told

phunk

iTrader: (21)

I wouldnt be so hard on the guy... there is a lot of things being discussed and worked out between the most experienced 350z tuners and once everyone is done with the R&D and proven methods are born from speculation and testing... the process of building a 350z is destine to change in a few ways over the next year or two.

Some are willing to be the test rats and will sacrafice their own time and money to contribute to the cause, and to everyone that blows a built engine we have that much more data to learn from... so we should all say "Thanks Todd, for blowing your engine. By learning of the demise of your built motor, we have added to the DO NOT list"

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

many are quick to claim they know everything about the 350z, yet have only bolted on accessories to a motor and make 70 more actual hp than the stock configuration...really not impressed on my end

true charles...we have put the time and the money into these projects so that we can make some truely impressive gains..the kinks will be worked out..and all of you who are so quick to critisize will be thanking us...

I do this as a hobby, for fun...and I hope these efforts benefit the 350z community
so, newbies: please understand, we have been doing this before you even knew that a turbo kit was available for a 350z

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=350zDCalb]

i reflashed my ecu to at least prevent this from happening again (if that is indeed what happened)
QUOTE]

Is this believed to be the fix against the advanced map? Can techosquare assure us that a reflash will change the timing on all 3 maps?

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

[QUOTE=g356gear]
The standard map is copied to the location of where the advanced map resides, replacing the advanced map...
not sure what your question is? reflashing to specifically target the timing will not allow the ecu to adance timing at will

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=350zDCalb]That was my question......how does tsquare block the advanced map.....I guess replacing it would do the trick.