New HKS supercharger
07-06-2005, 05:59 PM
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New HKS supercharger
Hey i just got a track z 2005 and i'm not sure what supercharger to put in? I read up on HKS new supercharger and so far it's impressed me. What so you guys think? Am I better of putting in twin turbo?
07-06-2005, 06:46 PM
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I doubt you'll achieve your HP goals without dialing up the boost beyond what the stock motor bottom end will take. If you want to achieve that level of HP, with either a supercharger or a turbo, you have quite a bit of work ahead of you to make the bottom end stronger.
I haven't checked out the HKS unit yet. I did, however, take a good hard look at the Stillen package. Here's what I posted on another forum where we were discussing the pros and cons of a supercharger vs. a turbo:
Stillen has a CARB certified supercharger system, their Stage 2 kit, that's been tested with their other components for a totally integrated kit. They offer a warranty on the kit and an engine warranty as well! Which is a good thing because Nissan will void mine as soon as I install the kit. The only real downside, at least I thought it was at the time, was that I have to replace my hood. But I found a nice CF hood that the supercharger will clear so I'm a happy guy.
The supercharger shootout in the Winter 2004 edition of SportZ Mag showed that:
The stock Z made max HP and torque of 242 HP and 239 ft lbs @ 5900 & 4550 rpm respectively.
The Vortech S/C kit came in at 344 HP and 298 ft lbs, a gain of 102 HP and 59 ft lbs, at 5900 and 6300 rpm respectively. If you look at the dyno sheets at the SportZ website, you can see some significant deviations and drops in both measurements. It appears that the engine was detonating quite a bit. The stock runs look much smoother and more progressive.
The ATI S/C kit showed 353 HP and 300 ft lbs, a gain of 111 HP and 61 ft lbs, at 4800 & 6700 rpm respectively. The HP and torque curves look much smoother than the Vortech kit but you still see some deviations and drops in both measurements which indicates some detonation.
The Stillen kit showed 338 HP and 302 ft lbs, a gain of 94 HP and 63 ft lbs, @ 4200 and 6700 rpm respectively. The curves for both measurements look smooth, progessive and mimic the stock curves, albeit with higher values.
The Stillen kit makes it's power earlier in the powerband and sustains it longer across the rpm range.
A turbo makes more power, of course, but I couldn't find one as a complete kit. JWT now has a turbo kit with a CARB certificate. They offer a warranty on the kit but not your engine as Stillen does with their S/C kit. I didn't want to be reduced to buying one part here, one part there, one part somewhere's else, ad nauseum, and hoped it all works together.
I checked out GReddy, Turbonetics and one other when I first started researching pros and cons of turbos vs. superchargers. I also knew that a centrifugal supercharger would also work but alas, no CARB certificate for ATI and ProCharger yet. They had no recommendations for the ECM flash, intake or exhaust. Also, they couldn't give a recommendation re: an intercooler. Stillen had it all covered.
APS now has a complete twin turbo kit with all the nuts bolts, gaskets, hoses manifolds you need. The kit also comes with a uni chip piggy back for added fuel managment. APS claims 398 RWHP and 386 RWTQ with 11.5 to 1 Air fuel ratio at only 12 PSI. APS had a problem with the stock actuators they supplied with the kit but they then sourced an actuator through Garret that bolts on with minor modifications.
They recommend the Altered atmosphere return style fuel system to take care of the fueling needs for the turbos and include all a/n fittings, walbro fuel pump, aeromotive regulator, ect.
I was a bit leery of underhood heat. I hate melting stuff under my hood and, while I know you can heat shield under the hood, I just wasn't ready to take that chance.
I know a turbo makes more horsepower, at the upper end, but a S/C meets my needs with respects to making power in the low and middle power rpm ranges. The Stillen kit, based on it's dyno results, appears to be the best kit available for a supercharger as of now. It makes it's horsepower at a lower RPM (easier on the engine with max HP coming well below redline) and the torque value is comparable to the other kits.
Good luck with your choice!
I haven't checked out the HKS unit yet. I did, however, take a good hard look at the Stillen package. Here's what I posted on another forum where we were discussing the pros and cons of a supercharger vs. a turbo:
Stillen has a CARB certified supercharger system, their Stage 2 kit, that's been tested with their other components for a totally integrated kit. They offer a warranty on the kit and an engine warranty as well! Which is a good thing because Nissan will void mine as soon as I install the kit. The only real downside, at least I thought it was at the time, was that I have to replace my hood. But I found a nice CF hood that the supercharger will clear so I'm a happy guy.
The supercharger shootout in the Winter 2004 edition of SportZ Mag showed that:
The stock Z made max HP and torque of 242 HP and 239 ft lbs @ 5900 & 4550 rpm respectively.
The Vortech S/C kit came in at 344 HP and 298 ft lbs, a gain of 102 HP and 59 ft lbs, at 5900 and 6300 rpm respectively. If you look at the dyno sheets at the SportZ website, you can see some significant deviations and drops in both measurements. It appears that the engine was detonating quite a bit. The stock runs look much smoother and more progressive.
The ATI S/C kit showed 353 HP and 300 ft lbs, a gain of 111 HP and 61 ft lbs, at 4800 & 6700 rpm respectively. The HP and torque curves look much smoother than the Vortech kit but you still see some deviations and drops in both measurements which indicates some detonation.
The Stillen kit showed 338 HP and 302 ft lbs, a gain of 94 HP and 63 ft lbs, @ 4200 and 6700 rpm respectively. The curves for both measurements look smooth, progessive and mimic the stock curves, albeit with higher values.
The Stillen kit makes it's power earlier in the powerband and sustains it longer across the rpm range.
A turbo makes more power, of course, but I couldn't find one as a complete kit. JWT now has a turbo kit with a CARB certificate. They offer a warranty on the kit but not your engine as Stillen does with their S/C kit. I didn't want to be reduced to buying one part here, one part there, one part somewhere's else, ad nauseum, and hoped it all works together.
I checked out GReddy, Turbonetics and one other when I first started researching pros and cons of turbos vs. superchargers. I also knew that a centrifugal supercharger would also work but alas, no CARB certificate for ATI and ProCharger yet. They had no recommendations for the ECM flash, intake or exhaust. Also, they couldn't give a recommendation re: an intercooler. Stillen had it all covered.
APS now has a complete twin turbo kit with all the nuts bolts, gaskets, hoses manifolds you need. The kit also comes with a uni chip piggy back for added fuel managment. APS claims 398 RWHP and 386 RWTQ with 11.5 to 1 Air fuel ratio at only 12 PSI. APS had a problem with the stock actuators they supplied with the kit but they then sourced an actuator through Garret that bolts on with minor modifications.
They recommend the Altered atmosphere return style fuel system to take care of the fueling needs for the turbos and include all a/n fittings, walbro fuel pump, aeromotive regulator, ect.
I was a bit leery of underhood heat. I hate melting stuff under my hood and, while I know you can heat shield under the hood, I just wasn't ready to take that chance.
I know a turbo makes more horsepower, at the upper end, but a S/C meets my needs with respects to making power in the low and middle power rpm ranges. The Stillen kit, based on it's dyno results, appears to be the best kit available for a supercharger as of now. It makes it's horsepower at a lower RPM (easier on the engine with max HP coming well below redline) and the torque value is comparable to the other kits.
Good luck with your choice!
07-06-2005, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NissanZfan
what can the stock engine handle? 400hp?
Some guy on here is running 500whp on stock block with propper tuning... dunno if it blew up yet , this was in January .. some guy in colorado
07-06-2005, 07:45 PM
#6
I think you would be able to reach 450hp with the HKS, but it would require you to have a LOT of other mods and to turn up the boost really high. I honestly don't think that your engine would hold it out for long.
Some questions to be considered: Why do you want a supercharger? Have you considered a single turbo or twin turbo? Have you considered any other Superchargers or was the HKS just the first one you heard off? Do you really want that much power? It just goes on and on... so the best thing to do is to look at what your goals are, and why you have those goals.
There's so much on this topic that I could cover that it would take me hours and hours to write. The best advice I can give you is to read the Forced Induction section of this forum. Its like a library there, anything you need to know has already been covered, so all you need to do is go through the topics of the threads and see which seem like something that would benefit you. If you don't find your answers in those threads, then just ask it and you will get your answers quickly.
Hope that helps,
Jaki
Some questions to be considered: Why do you want a supercharger? Have you considered a single turbo or twin turbo? Have you considered any other Superchargers or was the HKS just the first one you heard off? Do you really want that much power? It just goes on and on... so the best thing to do is to look at what your goals are, and why you have those goals.
There's so much on this topic that I could cover that it would take me hours and hours to write. The best advice I can give you is to read the Forced Induction section of this forum. Its like a library there, anything you need to know has already been covered, so all you need to do is go through the topics of the threads and see which seem like something that would benefit you. If you don't find your answers in those threads, then just ask it and you will get your answers quickly.
Hope that helps,
Jaki
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07-06-2005, 11:14 PM
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Good read man thx 
Originally Posted by MADDOG`
I doubt you'll achieve your HP goals without dialing up the boost beyond what the stock motor bottom end will take. If you want to achieve that level of HP, with either a supercharger or a turbo, you have quite a bit of work ahead of you to make the bottom end stronger.
I haven't checked out the HKS unit yet. I did, however, take a good hard look at the Stillen package. Here's what I posted on another forum where we were discussing the pros and cons of a supercharger vs. a turbo:
Stillen has a CARB certified supercharger system, their Stage 2 kit, that's been tested with their other components for a totally integrated kit. They offer a warranty on the kit and an engine warranty as well! Which is a good thing because Nissan will void mine as soon as I install the kit. The only real downside, at least I thought it was at the time, was that I have to replace my hood. But I found a nice CF hood that the supercharger will clear so I'm a happy guy.
The supercharger shootout in the Winter 2004 edition of SportZ Mag showed that:
The stock Z made max HP and torque of 242 HP and 239 ft lbs @ 5900 & 4550 rpm respectively.
The Vortech S/C kit came in at 344 HP and 298 ft lbs, a gain of 102 HP and 59 ft lbs, at 5900 and 6300 rpm respectively. If you look at the dyno sheets at the SportZ website, you can see some significant deviations and drops in both measurements. It appears that the engine was detonating quite a bit. The stock runs look much smoother and more progressive.
The ATI S/C kit showed 353 HP and 300 ft lbs, a gain of 111 HP and 61 ft lbs, at 4800 & 6700 rpm respectively. The HP and torque curves look much smoother than the Vortech kit but you still see some deviations and drops in both measurements which indicates some detonation.
The Stillen kit showed 338 HP and 302 ft lbs, a gain of 94 HP and 63 ft lbs, @ 4200 and 6700 rpm respectively. The curves for both measurements look smooth, progessive and mimic the stock curves, albeit with higher values.
The Stillen kit makes it's power earlier in the powerband and sustains it longer across the rpm range.
A turbo makes more power, of course, but I couldn't find one as a complete kit. JWT now has a turbo kit with a CARB certificate. They offer a warranty on the kit but not your engine as Stillen does with their S/C kit. I didn't want to be reduced to buying one part here, one part there, one part somewhere's else, ad nauseum, and hoped it all works together.
I checked out GReddy, Turbonetics and one other when I first started researching pros and cons of turbos vs. superchargers. I also knew that a centrifugal supercharger would also work but alas, no CARB certificate for ATI and ProCharger yet. They had no recommendations for the ECM flash, intake or exhaust. Also, they couldn't give a recommendation re: an intercooler. Stillen had it all covered.
APS now has a complete twin turbo kit with all the nuts bolts, gaskets, hoses manifolds you need. The kit also comes with a uni chip piggy back for added fuel managment. APS claims 398 RWHP and 386 RWTQ with 11.5 to 1 Air fuel ratio at only 12 PSI. APS had a problem with the stock actuators they supplied with the kit but they then sourced an actuator through Garret that bolts on with minor modifications.
They recommend the Altered atmosphere return style fuel system to take care of the fueling needs for the turbos and include all a/n fittings, walbro fuel pump, aeromotive regulator, ect.
I was a bit leery of underhood heat. I hate melting stuff under my hood and, while I know you can heat shield under the hood, I just wasn't ready to take that chance.
I know a turbo makes more horsepower, at the upper end, but a S/C meets my needs with respects to making power in the low and middle power rpm ranges. The Stillen kit, based on it's dyno results, appears to be the best kit available for a supercharger as of now. It makes it's horsepower at a lower RPM (easier on the engine with max HP coming well below redline) and the torque value is comparable to the other kits.
Good luck with your choice!
I haven't checked out the HKS unit yet. I did, however, take a good hard look at the Stillen package. Here's what I posted on another forum where we were discussing the pros and cons of a supercharger vs. a turbo:
Stillen has a CARB certified supercharger system, their Stage 2 kit, that's been tested with their other components for a totally integrated kit. They offer a warranty on the kit and an engine warranty as well! Which is a good thing because Nissan will void mine as soon as I install the kit. The only real downside, at least I thought it was at the time, was that I have to replace my hood. But I found a nice CF hood that the supercharger will clear so I'm a happy guy.
The supercharger shootout in the Winter 2004 edition of SportZ Mag showed that:
The stock Z made max HP and torque of 242 HP and 239 ft lbs @ 5900 & 4550 rpm respectively.
The Vortech S/C kit came in at 344 HP and 298 ft lbs, a gain of 102 HP and 59 ft lbs, at 5900 and 6300 rpm respectively. If you look at the dyno sheets at the SportZ website, you can see some significant deviations and drops in both measurements. It appears that the engine was detonating quite a bit. The stock runs look much smoother and more progressive.
The ATI S/C kit showed 353 HP and 300 ft lbs, a gain of 111 HP and 61 ft lbs, at 4800 & 6700 rpm respectively. The HP and torque curves look much smoother than the Vortech kit but you still see some deviations and drops in both measurements which indicates some detonation.
The Stillen kit showed 338 HP and 302 ft lbs, a gain of 94 HP and 63 ft lbs, @ 4200 and 6700 rpm respectively. The curves for both measurements look smooth, progessive and mimic the stock curves, albeit with higher values.
The Stillen kit makes it's power earlier in the powerband and sustains it longer across the rpm range.
A turbo makes more power, of course, but I couldn't find one as a complete kit. JWT now has a turbo kit with a CARB certificate. They offer a warranty on the kit but not your engine as Stillen does with their S/C kit. I didn't want to be reduced to buying one part here, one part there, one part somewhere's else, ad nauseum, and hoped it all works together.
I checked out GReddy, Turbonetics and one other when I first started researching pros and cons of turbos vs. superchargers. I also knew that a centrifugal supercharger would also work but alas, no CARB certificate for ATI and ProCharger yet. They had no recommendations for the ECM flash, intake or exhaust. Also, they couldn't give a recommendation re: an intercooler. Stillen had it all covered.
APS now has a complete twin turbo kit with all the nuts bolts, gaskets, hoses manifolds you need. The kit also comes with a uni chip piggy back for added fuel managment. APS claims 398 RWHP and 386 RWTQ with 11.5 to 1 Air fuel ratio at only 12 PSI. APS had a problem with the stock actuators they supplied with the kit but they then sourced an actuator through Garret that bolts on with minor modifications.
They recommend the Altered atmosphere return style fuel system to take care of the fueling needs for the turbos and include all a/n fittings, walbro fuel pump, aeromotive regulator, ect.
I was a bit leery of underhood heat. I hate melting stuff under my hood and, while I know you can heat shield under the hood, I just wasn't ready to take that chance.
I know a turbo makes more horsepower, at the upper end, but a S/C meets my needs with respects to making power in the low and middle power rpm ranges. The Stillen kit, based on it's dyno results, appears to be the best kit available for a supercharger as of now. It makes it's horsepower at a lower RPM (easier on the engine with max HP coming well below redline) and the torque value is comparable to the other kits.
Good luck with your choice!
07-07-2005, 04:45 AM
#9
The Vortech S/C kit came in at 344 HP and 298 ft lbs, a gain of 102 HP and 59 ft lbs, at 5900 and 6300 rpm respectively. If you look at the dyno sheets at the SportZ website, you can see some significant deviations and drops in both measurements. It appears that the engine was detonating quite a bit. The stock runs look much smoother and more progressive.
This statement about deviations and drops due to detonation is FALSE . It more than likely was a stock Vortech tune . The deviations and drops are due to large amounts of timing being pulled and overly rich A/F at different times in the hp and trq curves
This statement about deviations and drops due to detonation is FALSE . It more than likely was a stock Vortech tune . The deviations and drops are due to large amounts of timing being pulled and overly rich A/F at different times in the hp and trq curves
07-07-2005, 06:36 AM
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If you want 450whp you need to add a ton of mods.
fcon v pro $$$$$$
and cams would be your best bet to start after that you can add bolt on but I will tell you HKS did a test with a new pully that they dont even have ready for release yet and I think on 100 gas they only made 400whp
fcon v pro $$$$$$
and cams would be your best bet to start after that you can add bolt on but I will tell you HKS did a test with a new pully that they dont even have ready for release yet and I think on 100 gas they only made 400whp
07-07-2005, 07:26 AM
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Tuan in IL, Genesis Racing Development (GRD), APS dealer, is running 509 hp to the wheels on his stock engine internals 350Z with APS Twin Turbos. He has been doing this for 12,000 plus miles. With no problems.
Ted in CA is running 430 hp to the wheels on 350 Z stock engine internals with APS Twin Turbos on 91 octane gas. He has been running this power level for 18,000 miles. And when he goes to the track, he has an alternate APS unichip tuning map that allows him to run over 500 hp to the wheels on 100 octane. He has been to 9 track events and has drag raced this car over 100 times at these power levels. He says his motor still runs great.
Jason in NJ is running over 400 hp to the wheels with his APS twin turbos on stock 350Z engine internals. He has been doing this for over 16,000 miles with no problems. He told me his qtr. mile time out of the box (before having the APS unichip tuned) was 12.10 sec. at 114 mph.. After having the APS unichip tuned, his qtr. mile time was 11.6 sec. at 119 mph. He told me last weekend he ran 11.63 sec. in the qtr. in 90 degree plus heat.
Having said all of the above, APS recommends that you do not run much more than 400 hp to the wheels on 350Zs on stock engine internals. I agree with that recommendation. As others have said, it is better to get a built up bottom end of the engine from the beginning if you can afford it. I personally plan to not go over 425 hp to the wheels on stock engine internals with my 350Z.
Zippycar ran his APS 350Z twin turbo without tuning for a while on stock engine internals and has now has had GRD in IL build up his engine. He reports that he is now at 455 wheel hp at 10 psi and no issues or problems.
One of the reasons I know all this is that I am researching APS and plan to get the twin turbo kit installed on my car this summer.
A more economical way to get to these power levels is the APS single turbo. Not quite as quick throttle response or ultimate hp potential as the twins, but formidable in its own right.
By the way, the APS kit has a fuel return system already in the standard kit. Several posters have already mentioned really needing a fuel return for consistent fuel pressure. I agree.
Ted in CA is running 430 hp to the wheels on 350 Z stock engine internals with APS Twin Turbos on 91 octane gas. He has been running this power level for 18,000 miles. And when he goes to the track, he has an alternate APS unichip tuning map that allows him to run over 500 hp to the wheels on 100 octane. He has been to 9 track events and has drag raced this car over 100 times at these power levels. He says his motor still runs great.
Jason in NJ is running over 400 hp to the wheels with his APS twin turbos on stock 350Z engine internals. He has been doing this for over 16,000 miles with no problems. He told me his qtr. mile time out of the box (before having the APS unichip tuned) was 12.10 sec. at 114 mph.. After having the APS unichip tuned, his qtr. mile time was 11.6 sec. at 119 mph. He told me last weekend he ran 11.63 sec. in the qtr. in 90 degree plus heat.
Having said all of the above, APS recommends that you do not run much more than 400 hp to the wheels on 350Zs on stock engine internals. I agree with that recommendation. As others have said, it is better to get a built up bottom end of the engine from the beginning if you can afford it. I personally plan to not go over 425 hp to the wheels on stock engine internals with my 350Z.
Zippycar ran his APS 350Z twin turbo without tuning for a while on stock engine internals and has now has had GRD in IL build up his engine. He reports that he is now at 455 wheel hp at 10 psi and no issues or problems.
One of the reasons I know all this is that I am researching APS and plan to get the twin turbo kit installed on my car this summer.
A more economical way to get to these power levels is the APS single turbo. Not quite as quick throttle response or ultimate hp potential as the twins, but formidable in its own right.
By the way, the APS kit has a fuel return system already in the standard kit. Several posters have already mentioned really needing a fuel return for consistent fuel pressure. I agree.
07-07-2005, 09:41 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by NissanZfan
what can the stock engine handle? 400hp?
07-07-2005, 11:06 AM
#14
Originally Posted by icyvoodoo
Hey i just got a track z 2005 and i'm not sure what supercharger to put in? I read up on HKS new supercharger and so far it's impressed me. What so you guys think? Am I better of putting in twin turbo?
Originally Posted by Import Tuner
Specially prepared for HKS USA, the compressor housing was ported and a prototype 9.5-psi pulley was fitted to the supercharger to replace the standard 7-psi unit. The standard upgraded fuel pump was used, although the two auxiliary 525cc injectors were dumped in favor of upgrading all six injectors to 650cc units. Controlling those injectors is an HKS F-CON V Pro D Jetro standalone engine management system, tuned by HKS USA. The standard intercooler included in the kit was also dumped, replaced with a larger prototype S-Type front mount. The included bypass valve was replaced with an SSQV blow-off valve, made by HKS—obviously.
Inhaled through a Super Mega Flow intake, air is compressed, ignited and expunged through prototype HKS SPL headers and into an HKS Dual Hi-Power Ti exhaust system. An HKS dry-carbon engine cover and limited-edition oil cap add a little perk to the under-hood looks. The internals on the VQ35 engine are dead stock, tuned to handle the 9.5 psi of boost using only the F-CON V Pro and 100-octane gas. Anything’s better than California’s 91-octane pea soup. Fit with HKS S35iL Superfire Racing spark plugs and a HKS limited-edition 1.3bar radiator cap, this 350Z has proven to be both capable and powerful.
Inhaled through a Super Mega Flow intake, air is compressed, ignited and expunged through prototype HKS SPL headers and into an HKS Dual Hi-Power Ti exhaust system. An HKS dry-carbon engine cover and limited-edition oil cap add a little perk to the under-hood looks. The internals on the VQ35 engine are dead stock, tuned to handle the 9.5 psi of boost using only the F-CON V Pro and 100-octane gas. Anything’s better than California’s 91-octane pea soup. Fit with HKS S35iL Superfire Racing spark plugs and a HKS limited-edition 1.3bar radiator cap, this 350Z has proven to be both capable and powerful.
I think to get 450 hp with the HKS kit would be quite difficult. I think with a Vortech it might be more achievable. Also keep in mind the shape of the power curve of the various solutions and not just peak hp figures.
It seems there is a glimmer of progress out there in isolating the cause of weakness in the motor. I saw a thread on here where a guy from TurboXS is looking for data to analyze, so maybe there will be a UTEC solution from them. I was also reading a thread on another board theorizing that one potential issue was oil starvation causing bearing failure, thus causing broken engine components.
07-07-2005, 03:20 PM
#18
Originally Posted by phunk
dont be so skeptical of a HKS SC making 450rwhp... there might be a surprise for you pretty soon... how soon? no idea... but soon.
07-07-2005, 07:52 PM
#20
Originally Posted by phunk
i do not know what exactly they are up to over there... i just remember the number 450 being brought up in a conversation... but I do seem to recall precisely what they are using for a fuel system on the car 
