10-12psi Stock Internals: Here's How I Think I'll Do It
07-18-2005, 08:35 AM
#41
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
woh....that's the first description i've heard of a motor blowing being tied to the rod bolts 
this can definately happen in theory (and you proved it)...i assume the MAJORITY of the time, the rod bolts are not to blame--in my case, the rod bolts were still intact..the rod twisted horribly and the piston was in a million pieces.
this can definately happen in theory (and you proved it)...i assume the MAJORITY of the time, the rod bolts are not to blame--in my case, the rod bolts were still intact..the rod twisted horribly and the piston was in a million pieces.
07-18-2005, 08:37 AM
#42
Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
WOW, make that one I've seen and one I've read about..
What you describe about your rod failure was EXACTLY what I saw when we took the motor apart. You'd have thought the piston got seized in the bore and the crank just ripped the bottom end of the rod off.
What you describe about your rod failure was EXACTLY what I saw when we took the motor apart. You'd have thought the piston got seized in the bore and the crank just ripped the bottom end of the rod off.
07-18-2005, 08:37 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Yes in your case, the piston may have been where it all started, that's the only way it can disintegrate like that. In my case, that #3 piston had a crack in it, most likely from it being let up through the bore and slamming into an open valve on top, all from no longer being tied to a crank.
i'm sure some of them have the tast for the rod bolts as well...(their offspring feed off of the pistons, so who knows)
07-18-2005, 12:49 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
IMO (and pretty much everybody elses' as well who has actually built their motor)...there is NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL when you are building a motor and running forced induction! 
and, as far as the rod bolts being blamed...haven't you seen, picture after picture of these rods being bent and twisted? they cannot hold the extreme rapid increase in torque produced by high boost TURBO kits (superchargers are so linear-this isn't an issue)..to say it is the rod bolts is like saying "the reason the guy broke his leg when he jumped off the skyscraper is because he wasn't wearing jeans"...come on now 
for example: with my current setup (granted I'm probably running more boost than one would plan on a stock motor)...my torque numbers from 4200 rpm (approx 320ft lbs) to 5500rpm jumps (537 ft lbs) ---that's over 200 ft pounds of torque increase in 1300rpm range!!!
just my oh so humble opinion
for example: with my current setup (granted I'm probably running more boost than one would plan on a stock motor)...my torque numbers from 4200 rpm (approx 320ft lbs) to 5500rpm jumps (537 ft lbs) ---that's over 200 ft pounds of torque increase in 1300rpm range!!!
just my oh so humble opinion
As for the extreme rapid increase in torque breaking the rods...that's all speculation. And pretty poor speculation at that as a vast majority of blown VQs do so at LOWER POWER LEVELS.
Futhermore in regards to a sudden torque increase...back when the 350Z was a baby. Bluefish and performance motorsport ran a 250ish shot on a STOCK MOTOR 350z for a while until they blew the motor due to a nitrous kit malfunction. The stock motor held up just fine after countless activation of the nitrous which added more torque in an even shorter amount of time than your current built motor setup does.
Nice theory..but it doesn't really work in the current situation with the information we have available.
07-18-2005, 12:57 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
-tuning,
-possible ECU switching timing maps,
-use of a piggyback system with an ecu that demonstrates adaptive learning at all parts of the map (or something that causes it to change-gurgen can explain this much better than me)
-possible ECU switching timing maps,
-use of a piggyback system with an ecu that demonstrates adaptive learning at all parts of the map (or something that causes it to change-gurgen can explain this much better than me)
true, many factors will cause these motors to fail, but this was not your point...you were claiming that the rod bolts were responsible..this is not the case...many factors are responsible...primarily the tune (this does not mean putting the car on the dyno and plugging in numbers, because i have seen that change in a matter of days)...i believe this is the MAIN reason so many e-manage tuned cars have blown...the tune can be perfect on the dyno..needs to be watched closely and fine tuned for a few days/weeks to ensure it is consistant and one is driving around with the same tune they think they are--this further shows the importance of a wideband A/F and an EGT guage onboard to continuously monitor the tune
you ask why the APS setups have lasted above 400whp...it's not the number 400 that is so magical, it is the fact that these setups are not tuner friendly..they come with a preprogrammed safe map and addresses fuel AND TIMING <---(KEY)... when people can't mess with the tune and the tune is rich and safe and DOESN'T change (or at least addresses timing-many greddy kits blew while not pulling any/enough timing) the longevity is much greater..
So after a paragraph like this why do you continue to bash the motor itself as unsafe for any type of FI in stock form????
these motors will break rods as well, because these rods are not strong enough, it's just a matter of time...the pauter rods and forged (super duty) arias pistons give much more forgiveness when it comes to a lean mixture...they survive small amounts of detonation because of their pure muscle, unlike the stock setup that will snap like a toothpick (i know i'm exaggerating, couldn't resist)
I'm going to bed, hope that served as a descent rebuttal BRIGuy
I'm going to bed, hope that served as a descent rebuttal BRIGuy
Last edited by BriGuyMax; 07-18-2005 at 01:00 PM.
07-18-2005, 05:18 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
So after a paragraph like this why do you continue to bash the motor itself as unsafe for any type of FI in stock form????
.
.
because i'm mean
...and i even hate dolphins
j/k, i don't hate dolphins...dude, calm down, you get so defensive and attack every opinion that is not your own... deep breathing helps
07-18-2005, 06:45 PM
#48
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On a technical note here, I've got full access to AllDataPro (anyone without manuals need a remove/install rundown let me know and I'll try and "link" it to ya).... Nothing really on an '05 engine removal/installation and wanted to know if it is anywhere remotely close to an '04 removal/installaton?? Check the link..Thanks fellaz..
http://www.alldatapro.com/alldata/PR...53743/34849396
http://www.alldatapro.com/alldata/PR...53743/34849396
07-18-2005, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
Briguy...
you are totally right...about everything...
just giving my opinion...speculation as it may be, i think its pretty accurate
you are totally right...about everything...
just giving my opinion...speculation as it may be, i think its pretty accurate
You can't handle the truth
Last edited by BriGuyMax; 07-18-2005 at 07:23 PM.
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