cjb80

iTrader: (3)

OK, so I started my built motor tonight. I have having issues keeping the motor idling, infact it's next to impossible during normal driving.

I have built an 8.5:1 compression motor with, kinetix manifold, APS turbo, exhaust, test pipes, etc etc, and an emanage ultimate. When you get the car to idle, the car seems that one or two cylinders is misfiring. You can tell that sometimes it is firing correctly because it cleans up and then I can tell it's only the cams that are making the idle rough.

Needless to say, since I am running an 05 harness and ECU, the idle is like 650 rpm, so it runs like poop. I am going to try and convince the local Nissan dealer to change the idle to 1100 or so to see if that cleans up the rough idle and misfiring.

Also, the air fuel ratio at idle is terrible. I am scared to add fuel to try and correct it because it takes for-goddamn-ever to change the plugs. The car will skip from 17:1 AFR to off the charts (22+) I am assuming that this is due to the fact that there is one or two cylinders misfiring and thus screwing up the AFR readings.

When you drive the car, it cleans up and runs perfect. We ran the car at 6 psi of boost up to 6000 rpm while doing some emanage tuning. The emanage seems to work very well, surprisingly. It pulled decently, and you can tell it has alot of potential.

Let's see, oh yeah the tilton clutch sounds rediculous, I am surprised they that they would sell a product that sounds like something is seriously wrong with the car under normal operation.

The end.

Chris

2JZfan

Chris, on the Tilton, you are most likely hearing your tranny not the clutch itself... the heavy factory flywheel acts like a harmonic dampener for the tranny, when you replace it with the ultra-lightweight tilton pieces you start hearing the gears rattling against each other... we face this same issue with the 6-speed in the MKIV Supra (I'm a Tilton dealer and have sold many of their carbon clutches)... some people get a little tweaked when they find out that $50k car w/$5k tranny + $4k clutch = John Deere tractor impersonator but when you remind them that you've got a clutch that can hold 1250ft/lb of torque, weighs only 14lbs (clutch and flywheel) and gives you a pedal feel lighter and smoother than stock, they usually get over it

STFU Tuning

iTrader: (1)

Add fuel. I've seen similar idle issues on other cars and that seems way too lean. I assume the factory ECU is running closed loop at idle. I have seen your situation happen when the closed loop is working hard to compensate at idle. I'd have to hear it myself to be sure, but you should richen that up. Target 15.0 and see what happens. Some cars like to idle even righer. The EVOs like to idle around 13.8 or so.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

dam i was just going to post almost the same exact problems with my car!!! glad to see i am not the only one who is having a problem figuring this out.
oh ya, and i'm running the tilton too. does sound like forks in a blender. but it only happens when in neutral it idle. disappears at only about 1100 rpm or less. thought the noise was from the friction plates though.

STFU Tuning

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, all multi plate clutches sound like that. The quietest I've heard is the RPS twin carbon on my EVO.

cjb80

iTrader: (3)

When I tune with the EMS I target around 13:1 AFR. My concern is that one or more of the cylinders on the RHS bank is misfiring. That is where I have my wideband located. It seems to me that if the car were really idling at 17:1 AFR, then it wouldn't idle at all. Perhaps the cams are making that much of an air fuel ratio difference at such low RPM?

I had the AFR at 14:1 or so and it helped a little, but it would occasionally screw up and the timing would go up really high and the air fuel ratio would go really high also.

It's very odd.

Chris

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

in the a/f target map, in order for it to work correctly, you need to hook up the auxilury output map that you can tell the comp to go into open loop mode. if not the a/f target will not work properly. they suggest leaving the lower rpms and load in closed loop so the stock ecm will figure those, then switch to open loop at the higher boost/rpm levels and switch to the a/f targeting possible with the emanage ultimate. i havn't had a chance to test this yet, but that is what i understood from the manual and how i have mine wired and setup.
you seem to be having the exact same problem as mine, i even by passed the eu completely and put back in the stock injectors. still had the same problem. i am literally out of ideas on what to try next. it does seem alot better out driving though, but really want to get it figured out first. cruising around and having to use the e-brake to stop so i can have the clutch in and revving the motor is really a handful, hahahah.

cjb80

iTrader: (3)

Do you have aftermarket cams?

At first I thought it was a wiring issue, but I double checked the wiring like 3 times literally. The wiring is all soldered also.

I am hoping that if I get the idle target at 1100 then it will magically solve all my problems.

Also, I guarantee you that the Nissan ECU doesn't have some sort of input to go in to open loop mode.

Lastly, when how much fuel are you adding in the injector map, say at 8 psi? It seems like only +15 points of fuel is needed, does that sound about right?

Thanks

Chris

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

CJ, the misfire A/F jumpiness......does it disappear once you free rev the car to about 2500rpm?

What is your injector scaling set at? If you want to call me, I will walk you through the settings to make sure everything is proper.

Also, Make sure you airflow output map is not selected.

cjb80

iTrader: (3)

Immediately after starting the car the idle is screwy, when you free rev it cleans up and runs smoothly. When the idle comes down it's rough (not sparking, or injecting on all cylinders correctly) A/F ratio is around 17-18:1. When I add fuel, it comes down to 14-15:1 AFR, and improves slightly, however it still has spikes where the AFR goes to 20-30:1, and ignition timing goes to like 30 degrees. Whenever the motor spins down it stalls about 80% of the time, I am sure this is partially due to the cam/flywheel combo however.... In gear and driving the car pulls and feels great, just need more boost now

I tried to call but I didn't get an answer, I will PM my cell.

Chris

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

i am running the nismo cams in mine. i have not even really gotten far enough to put the car under boost much at all. i am plus 10 across the whole map and it seems to be ok. right now i am concentrating just on getting the thing to idle and run correctly.
yes i do know the eu reccomends it runs in open loop for the a/f targeting to work correctly. which can be controlled by the auxiulary output map. i can't rememberwhich wire you hook to for the ecm, but that is what the operational manual says.
sharif, got any info on this?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Give me 15 mins, as I am with another customer.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

If the dealer can't do it for you send your ECU to Technosquare. I have a built motor (pauter rods, wiseco pistions 8:8:1, jwt cams, and headwork) and I had my idle bumped up to 950. It idles great!

Also I have the ATS twin carbon clutch and at idle a clanks like a mo fo. When I press on the clutch I get a grinding noise. People always ask me what that sound is and I tell them "Performance."

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

also if I am driving and in low rpms I can hear the gears kinda like an 18 wheeler. As soon as I reach higher rpms it goes away.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

chris, are you running the shielded cas wire? i am not, but am hard pressed to see this as my problem. i do plan on making my own shielded wiring for the cas and cam sensors though. maybe i will do this later today and see if it helps. i doubt it though, as not much else has helped, lol.

cjb80

iTrader: (3)

Now yet, I have one that came with the APS kit. I don't know how to wire it up, that was on my list of info to look up today. There's no way that's the problem though, or a stock z would function the same. I wonder if it cleans up at higher RPM because the stock ecu ignores the cam sensor input due to the cams being advanced with the VCT. MAYBE the cam sensor is screwy...

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Hey GMan, I saw and heard your car firsthand, yesterday at the shop. It actually sounds very quiet at idle. When you depress the clutch pedal, it does sound noisy, but i have heard much worse.

Tell your friends, that its the price you pay, to have a clutch that can hold 700whp and that you can beat the **** out of...but your grama can still drive the car.

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

well i did get the car to run about perfect for an hour after cleaning the metal slurry off of the cam sensors from the motor break in. but my probs seem to be creeping back. i think i am going to pull the throttle motor tonight and see if adjusting it will do anything. i know it is a big no-no, but fawk it, i'm getting very sic of this and have tried nearly everything else i can think of. seeing that your problems are nearly identical to mine, helps to reasure me that it may just be a tuning issue.

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

DAMN THE SWARF!

cjb80

iTrader: (3)

I believe I resolved my idle problem, well the mysterious part of it anyways. The problem was that the eManage fried a bunch of my coils. After having purchased a couple other motors, fortunately I have extra sets of coils!! 4 of my coils have eaten it so far, and I figured out that you can look for a nice melted bulge on the side of it to quickly determine if they are hosed!!! (cool feature!)

I haven;t left the car in the on position for more than 20 seconds or so, except for one coil, where the car stalled and I forgot the turn the car off. As I was trying to find the bad coil, or fouled plug, I was hovering over the engine, and I noticed the coil starting to smoke!

I checked the rest of the coils, and they all were fine. I replaced the bad coil, and the car didn't misfire, however I still have the problem with the car spinning down and stalling (due to cams, and tilton).

I am sending my ECU to Technosquare today and I am going to have them raise the rev limiter to 7500, increase idle to 1100, and he mentioned something about the throttle body closing slightly at higher rpm with the stock ECU (which will be removed).

I ran the car at 10 psi today also, and it pulls pretty good, now I am trying to get actuators so I can run higher boost levels. My goal is to run 16 psi, I think with 8,5:1 compression and a rich air fuel ratio of around 11.5:1 the setup should last a long time. I expect 550-600 rear wheel when I am done. Currently at 10 psi (max boost I can make for some reason??) the car is squeeling the tires in second gear with just a roll on, which is a cool effect.

Anyways, I am considering messing with the Diodes to try and fix the problem, or just changing the ignition system to a 929 Honda CBR ignition coil setup with AEM C2DI ignition system. I have all the parts on hand, and I could have it running with the new setup in 2-3 hours. There are no charge times withthat sort of ignition system, it's ethier sparking or not. I just need to make sure the signal to spark is > whatever the emanage is putting out whenever it's just sitting around in the on position.

Chris