I would like start a thread with input from guys regarding their feelings on the stock ecu re-flash used in the PE and T-netics kits vs piggybacks in the APS,Greddy,Vortech, etc kits. The good and bad points of each.

 

Well it would seem that for some the Flash program with the Turbonetics kit works fine... But for a few of us it does not, now it is true the shop that did my install had the first version install instructions so they did not do the modifications that are now suggested in the newer Turbonetics kit instructions. So that may be effecting me or maybe not cause why would I want the upgraded fuel pump to flow less than it was designed to

Anyway that has always kinda been known by me since coming from Honda's that flashes work for some and not well enough for others.

Now I just sent my ECU to Technosquare, then got it back still rich... And my idle is much lower (was idle'ing little below 1000 rpm which MIAPLAYA thought was very strange but I loved it cause it was very smooth), but sending it to Technosquare it seems there program lowered my idle and now it is sorta ruff... I will be sending it back on Monday to see if they can lean me out some more and raise my idle some.

But the best part of the Flash program is that it is the easiest to install

And if you want, pick up another form of management to use like I did

Also I think the Tuner kits that don't come with injectors/fuel pump/management are the best choice IMO...

Vortech and Turbonetics offer them that I know of in Tuner versions.

Piggy back is a little more involved with installing (if not a simple plug and play unit) and it would seem tuning is needed or suggested to be optimal. Though if you got a good tuner around it is a good move out of the box. And with the kits that come with them they do come with a base map right? So all one would have to do is get a tuner to improve where needed if needed.

 

I like reflashes for certain applications, and a combinaton of reflashes and piggyback's in others.

Since most of us dont live close to TS or AAM, getting a "perfect" reflash can be a challenge for your specific setup. Lately, I have been recommending a reflash, PLUS some kind of piggyback, so your local tuner can fine tune the reflash process.

Some of things that a reflash can do, that a piggyback cannot, include:

1) Raising the rev limit
2) Raising the Idle
3) Eliminating the speed cut (the eManage Ultimate can do this now)
4) Improving the throttle body opening position at WOT.
5) Reflashes can also equalize the fuel and timing maps to avoid unwanted shifts between maps.

 

How does a stock ecu that is re-flashed adjust maps for boost?? Does the re-flash manipulate the MAF feedback somehow?

 

This is what I was wondering. Tuning boost based on RPMs sucks. I would much rather tune off of a supplementary pressure sensor. Actually, I would rather tune off the stock MAF but I'm not sure what it's range is.

 

Exactly. Without a boost reference and the stock ecu's inability to clamp the MAF voltage like an e-manage does....how does it really expected to be effective?? Especially at higher boost when the MAF maxes out at just under 5 volts.

 

I prefer piggy backs since they can be tuned easier and by more people (and as mentioned, reflashes don't work for everyone). Also, if I ever want to remove the FI kit, I only have to unplug it, I don't have to pay to flash back to stock.

 

The MAF maxes out at 5.15v, which it will hit with just 5psi. After that the ECU is just running off the last set of upper cells in the map. So it is basicly just running on a rpm based setup.

The only reason for the voltage clamp is to prevent the ECU from reading a overvoltage on the MAF @4800rpm. After that you can let it max out.

It is not the ideal solution, however it works reasonably well. There are no great piggy-backs out yet. The UTEC is good however it just changes the MAF signal to adjust fuel. The EU looks good and has alot of nice features but doesn't have any knock feed back loop and is still pretty new with the timing portions not yet fully developed. The HKS setup is a great computer but alas you can't tune it and turners are sparse. So just pick your posion.

 

IMO, it's pretty simple. unless you need the items Sharif listed above (raise the rev limit etc), a piggyback (or SA) is the way to go. shipping your ECU off to someone to create a map for a car they can't get feedback on is not particularly effective. it obviously works well enough for many people, but i'd much prefer something that can be manipulated in response to the car's performance (ie, AF/knock/etc). every car is a little different, so creating maps for x car plus mods y and z doesn't always work. the piggyback's have their own issues, but they seem to be the most reasonable compromise. stand alone would be great from a performance perspective, but i'm not aware of any that you don't lose the cruise at least (not sure what else).

ahm

 

When you reflash the ECU, and request a fuel enrichment map, the fuel values in the table are adjusted..not the MAF voltage. The table is still MAF/RPM. As 7Eleven mentioned, the stock MAF is maxed pretty quickly, so even with a reflash setup, you are only applying fuel based on RPM...once the MAF limits are reached. Not ideal, but does work with moderately boosted setups.

IMHO, the EU and the UTEC are the best piggyback system. The EU displays real-time timing in the logs. It eventually will have the capability to set the timing, but right now, its +/-. However, since you can datalog the actual engine timing, you can make your changes, and then verify where the actual timing ends up landing. The EU does take a knock sensor input, and can adjust timing and fuel accordingly. We're still trying to determine how to get the EU to read this signal properly...with the help of everyone that has EU's, I think it will happen shortly.

The UTEC is a great system too, although some people may not prefer the text based tuning interface. Also, the UTEC enriches fuel up to 50% via MAF offset, which means it may not be suitable for very high boost applications, where 70-100% fuel enrichment is needed.

 

How about a flash and the UTEC?

 

Well said. Where's the AEM EMS when you need it?

 

yea, when is AEM ever going to come out with an EMS for the Z? I have been holding back on boosting to see how more piggybacks and standalone's turn out.

 

It's going to be a lot longer. They have been working on this system for well over a year. Every updatime you ask, they are 3 months away from completion. You will also want to wait for about about the 4th firware revision, as the AEM's were pretty buggy on the Evo's and others.

That would work too.