Open Wastegates - Greddy TT
09-11-2005, 06:30 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Open Wastegates - Greddy TT
Well, let me just say that R&D is a beotch! It cost me an extra 4 months of down time, a new block and new pistons, but the good news is... I finally got what I always wanted... open wastegates. And the better news is that everyone else who wants them will not have to go through anything except buying the pieces.
My car has spent the last 7 months at SGP. It was done 4 months ago, but I had one more request, the open wastegates. The first time we just cut the flange where the wastegates connect to the downpipe. The problem with this solution, besides being very messy, is that the heat from the wastegates was right by the cooling channels of the block. This super heated the block and melted 2 pistons on the dyno. There were other factors involved, but this was probably the main factor. So SGP built me a new block and we tried a different solution this time.
The solution was extension pipes that extend the wastegates away from the back of the block and dump tubes to dump all the heat to the ground. SGP will soon be fabricating these for sale to all who are interested. If you look at the design of the wastegates now, they dump the exhaust gases directly into the exhaust, straight down. This will act as a barrier against exhaust gases trying to exit the manifold and create a very restrictive back pressure. Open wastegates solves the back pressure issues and frees up around 35 - 45whp.
I am breaking her in for the next week, and hopefully will have dyno numbers for you next week. Until then, I am just glad to have her back!
My car has spent the last 7 months at SGP. It was done 4 months ago, but I had one more request, the open wastegates. The first time we just cut the flange where the wastegates connect to the downpipe. The problem with this solution, besides being very messy, is that the heat from the wastegates was right by the cooling channels of the block. This super heated the block and melted 2 pistons on the dyno. There were other factors involved, but this was probably the main factor. So SGP built me a new block and we tried a different solution this time.
The solution was extension pipes that extend the wastegates away from the back of the block and dump tubes to dump all the heat to the ground. SGP will soon be fabricating these for sale to all who are interested. If you look at the design of the wastegates now, they dump the exhaust gases directly into the exhaust, straight down. This will act as a barrier against exhaust gases trying to exit the manifold and create a very restrictive back pressure. Open wastegates solves the back pressure issues and frees up around 35 - 45whp.
I am breaking her in for the next week, and hopefully will have dyno numbers for you next week. Until then, I am just glad to have her back!
09-12-2005, 02:52 AM
#2
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you so much for doing this. I will be awaiting the release of this product from SGP. I was really not looking forward to doing the R&D for this myself, but did you guys ever try to just make a new pipe for that greddy piece that bolts between the turbo and test pipes and then just make a dump tube from the wastegates? Not sure if there are clearance issues or what, but that was my first logical thought rather than just strait up dumping them where they were.
09-12-2005, 06:22 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah we thought of that first, and it was way too tight. If you look at the way the wastegate sits on the downpipe, there is only about one inch of room. Originally we were going to re-route the downpipe and then dump the wastegates, but due to clearance issues, this was not a feasible solution. There would have to be signifigant bends in the downpipes and in the dump tubes which would create a separate restriction.
09-12-2005, 06:39 AM
#4
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Hood, TX
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When do they think they can make more. I don't want to lose the quiet sound of my borla but these overheating/backpressure issues are getting old quick. Did they give any indication if they were going to stock them or do them made to order? Thanks for all your hard work on this. Many people will benefit from your sacrifice.
Oh and how loud is it? Probably sound pretty mean past 4500rpms when the wastegates start to open.
Oh and how loud is it? Probably sound pretty mean past 4500rpms when the wastegates start to open.
Last edited by theking; 09-12-2005 at 06:41 AM.
09-12-2005, 06:46 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They will most likely have them available in 2 to 4 weeks. I believe Sharif at Forged Internals will be a vendor for them. The car sounds very mean when they open, but like stock when they are closed. They are loud, but I have not been boosting heavily as I am in break in. We will know exactly how loud once we tune. Let's just say it sound like it means business, but won't shatter your eardrums. The best of both worlds!
09-12-2005, 06:49 AM
#6
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Performance LAND
Posts: 1,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
run a seperate motorcycle exhaust on the waste gates running next to your main exhaust. this will solve it and clear up sound. and your loss in power... open gates is senseless change b/c you cant hear what the motor is really doing underload granted it sounds pretty nice but still put secondary exhaust on the gates will work....
09-12-2005, 06:58 AM
#7
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Hood, TX
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't quite understand. Are you saying you rely on your ears to tune your car/sense knock? Plus unless you are running very low boost the wastegates aren't opening that much.
Originally Posted by nissansource
open gates is senseless change b/c you cant hear what the motor is really doing underload
Trending Topics
09-12-2005, 07:57 AM
#8
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah, nissansource, not really following you too well.
I think you are saying to run a pipe from the wastegates, but we just discussed that and that the clearances are too tight. That is why the wastegates themselves have to be relocated.
Ok so 2 to 4 weeks, any idea on a price range they will be in (I know you couldn't pin point it or anything, but a rough estimate would be cool).
I think you are saying to run a pipe from the wastegates, but we just discussed that and that the clearances are too tight. That is why the wastegates themselves have to be relocated.
Ok so 2 to 4 weeks, any idea on a price range they will be in (I know you couldn't pin point it or anything, but a rough estimate would be cool).
09-12-2005, 08:10 AM
#9
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Hood, TX
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+1....
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
Ok so 2 to 4 weeks, any idea on a price range they will be in (I know you couldn't pin point it or anything, but a rough estimate would be cool).
09-12-2005, 01:55 PM
#13
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: L.A, California
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
your tim right, jotech did your Z, remember about a year and a half ago at compass bank on preston, i pulled up too you..."dude, you wanna pair of speakers!" the asian guy with spikey hair, told you i had a Z too, an you looked at me like an idiot..(it o.k) i gota weird job..jotech did mine too, i heard about your block blowin up, and you got a built motor, but you were gonna sell your Z?? so are you keeping it? Not to pry, why did you take it SGP, kenny had a nice set up on your Z, and if you dont mind answering, why didnt you have jotech build your block?? i used to always see your Z pass me, thats why i had to get a TT..lol
Last edited by BoOsTedz33TT; 09-12-2005 at 01:58 PM.
09-12-2005, 06:47 PM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lewisville, TX
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys... no idea on the price, but my guess is that they will be less than $500. They could be alot less or a little more. I don't want to commit SGP to anything. Mine were a custom fabrication and soon they will be able to mass produce them.
Thanks Paul and Jorge. I am looking forward to next weekend. If I get a chance I will take a vid on the dyno. Anyone want to host it next week??
Boostedz33tt - yeah that's me. Kenny did a great job and is a good friend, but when you are talking built VQ's, no one has more experience than SGP. Easy decision since I live only 4 hours away. Kenny will still have his hands on the car. I thought about selling the car because 6 months without it let me forget how much I love it. It is not for sale. If you ever see me, say what's up. Glad to hear you are TT.
Thanks Paul and Jorge. I am looking forward to next weekend. If I get a chance I will take a vid on the dyno. Anyone want to host it next week??
Boostedz33tt - yeah that's me. Kenny did a great job and is a good friend, but when you are talking built VQ's, no one has more experience than SGP. Easy decision since I live only 4 hours away. Kenny will still have his hands on the car. I thought about selling the car because 6 months without it let me forget how much I love it. It is not for sale. If you ever see me, say what's up. Glad to hear you are TT.
11-21-2005, 07:16 AM
#15
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Hood, TX
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought I would let everyone know that we did the wastegate dump tubes. I did them the same way t32gzz did and just extended the wastegates a couple inches down and then have the wastegates clocked so they dump towards the ground. Here are all the parts that it takes to do this.
Block off plates for the stock downpipe. 2 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS
Flanges to bolt to stock manifold and wastegate. 4 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS
45degree bend 2" pipe. 2 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=STL
Since all this is in stainless any good exhaust shop can weld it. They might complain a little because it is so tight but it very doable. All these parts cost approx. $120 and depending on how good of a deal the exhaust shop gives you that should be another $150-300. For longevity, after they get welded up I'm taking them to get ceramic coated like the rest of my exhaust. This should help reinforce the welds for long life. The reason that I did this instead of a 3" TD is because I like the quietness of the Borla under part throttle and I didn't want it any louder. This gives me the best of both worlds. Quiet when under light load or part throttle and very aggressive under full boost. Hope I helped.
Block off plates for the stock downpipe. 2 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS
Flanges to bolt to stock manifold and wastegate. 4 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS
45degree bend 2" pipe. 2 of these. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=STL
Since all this is in stainless any good exhaust shop can weld it. They might complain a little because it is so tight but it very doable. All these parts cost approx. $120 and depending on how good of a deal the exhaust shop gives you that should be another $150-300. For longevity, after they get welded up I'm taking them to get ceramic coated like the rest of my exhaust. This should help reinforce the welds for long life. The reason that I did this instead of a 3" TD is because I like the quietness of the Borla under part throttle and I didn't want it any louder. This gives me the best of both worlds. Quiet when under light load or part throttle and very aggressive under full boost. Hope I helped.
11-21-2005, 07:58 AM
#18
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Hood, TX
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll take pictures of them next week when the engine and tranny are out of the car so you can see exactly how they are done.
It was posted before that they would be $600. That sounds kind of steep for that little of piping. They shouldn't cost much more than good test pipes IMHO.
Originally Posted by 002-M-P
You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of this would you. Like how the wastegates are oriented now and where exactly they sit?
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Mark and I have been talking about this for a while. He promises me its just a few more weeks. 
We'll be carrying these as well, along with the whole collection of new products SGP will be making for the 350Z...lots in the pipeline.
We'll be carrying these as well, along with the whole collection of new products SGP will be making for the 350Z...lots in the pipeline.Last edited by theking; 11-21-2005 at 08:04 AM.
11-21-2005, 08:52 AM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by theking
It was posted before that they would be $600. That sounds kind of steep for that little of piping. They shouldn't cost much more than good test pipes IMHO.
