That is ********!!!!! If they supposedly know the fix, then they need to spill it. They can't possibly be making THAT much money on fixing APS smoking turbos......********.

 

The fuel mixture would have to be so rich that it would cause the plugs to foul. If the car is still running under this condition, then it is running an ignition amplifier. To my knowledge, there isn't anyone running that setup on a Z.... The fuel mixture would have to be like 8.0:1 AFR or something rediculous...... I have done this before, so I have personal experience.

Chris

PS- In regards to the one shop with the magical fix - Trust me, these tools don't know anything that anyone else in the world (APS, and the 50 other APS users) doesn't know already.....

 

Are any of the tuned owners experiencing these problems?

1. Hard to start after the vehicle is warm
2. Sometimes dies at low RPM parking lot cruising.
3. Some hesitation on tip in.

 

I got pretty riled when he told me that too. They claim to have fixed 4 (maybe 5 with the latest) smoking APS kits.

It's similar to Toqure Freaks actuators for the Garrett turbos... They arn't telling a soul where they get them because they like the publicity of being able to get them.

I'll give the car owner a call next week and see if he has gotten his car back... Then I'll find out if the smoking issue was truely fixed to his satisfaction. Until then this is all what I was told, I haven't seen the car since the fix. (I have seen it smoke!)

 

You can get actuators from Forge Motorsport right away. They fit fine.

 

WRT
"Trust me, these tools don't know anything...."
you are absolutely wrong.

 

Well if it really is a turbo getting too much oil, they could swap a restrictor. (APS says not to do it, but if you are running high oil pressure, since it is just a hole it will run higher pressure)

I run 80+ PSI @ the higher revs, they could swap out the stock oil pressure regulator.

Both of these would accomplish the same thing of lowering the turbo oil pressure, and 'could' prevent oil getting by the turbo...

Everybody fixates on the damn return lines... And there isn't much there to mess with. (Dont kink them, don't push them so far on that the tube is blocked due to a bend... not much rocket science here.)

We've got 10 minutes on the turbos' and there is smoke... The engine ain't blown yet, and leak downs provide nothing... so its high oil pressure, or oil not going back into the oil pan... (Easiest explinations, I doubt there are 20 turbos with bad seals on delivery)

Or those peskey Moononites again.

 

Freakin' Moononites!!!!

 

Enlighten me. I'm guessing it's a D&D term, or maybe Lord of the Rings.

 

oh hell no.


It's from ATHF on the Cartoon network.

 

So these guys know something about turbocharging and motors that no one else has figured out in the last 50 years or so? There is nothing that complex going on here, I can assure you.

From dictionary.com:

Tool (noun): (1) Someone who thinks they know something that everyone else doesn't know and tries to keep it a secret for no good reason.

"Joe is a tool for trying to hide the fact that she has bad gas from Jane"

 

It isn't a complex problem it's just sometimes people dismiss the "obvious".
The issue is easy to grasp even for me, and I'm a lowly engineer.
The basic resolution has been discussed above. I never bought the whole "ring wash theory", def a grab at straws IMO.

 

I didn't think the ring wash theory held water and my shop found out it didn't as well.

Anyways.

This magical "fix" has been talked about numerous times. Since noone is saying it out loud here, I will:
The mystical and magical smoking fix is:
Replacing the stock oil restrictors with smaller ones.

IMHO, this is a bad idea since I trust garett above anyone and from what i have been told, they are the ones that designated/designed the oil restrictors and determined which ones to use.

With the ring wash theory proved wrong - though the high FP is still an issue if you missed the running change on the install - and my shop 100% diagnosed my LHS turbo as smoking, time will tell what is found when the turbos are examined. It may just be high oil pressure that did mine in, or a kink in the returns, or moononites, or gremlins.

 

Well basically APS didn't "design" the turbos
and
Garret didn't "design" the oil return system
and
Nissan didn't "design" the VQ for this use

no-one expected to see such large oil psi variance from VQ to VQ.
Push all the variables to the center of the circle and the system works just fine. Push any one element to the corner it may not work as planned .
It's not a perfect world and no system is perfect.

 

I agree with those two statements, but the one about Nissan and the VQ doesn't apply IMO since they didn't design it to be used with the vortech sc, the turbonetics turbo setup, the greddy TT setup, etc. The thing is, who has the smoking issues, APS TT owners. Why? Do you think all those other companies accounted for the large PSI variances? I don't claim to have enough knowledge to know why APS is king of the hill with smoking cars and others have none that I know of.

Yes, smaller oil restrictors may help in some cases, but I state again, garett designed them and I trust garett above all else. That accounted for, they didn't design the return setup on the kit. And as a result, I would modify the return setup before I would mess with the restrictors. To that you might say it is easier to change restrictors, but IMO it isn't best to do what's easiest in this case.

 

If you are not comfortable with that then either:
a) reduce the overall peak oil psi via the OEM regulator.
b) add an electric scavenging pump.
..?

 

OK, so then how does the explain only one of the turbos smoking then? The Garrett turbos have an oil restrictor built in to it, I have run a GT30/40 on an s2000 motor which goes up to 80 psi of oil pressure, and I have not had an issue.

Chris

 

Surely the oil return system on your S2000 is of different design than the APS TT kit on a Z. Better drop/drainage , means you can handle more oil volume into the bearing housing before it gets forced thru the seal. Also the psi you measure at the gauge port isn't necessarily the same as seen at he turbo oil feed. The drainage characteristics between the two system even remotely the same. The oil psi vs. boost/vac vs rpm vs temp vs etc. and are vastly different.

So , even if the Turbos between the two installations were identical , its a apple to orange comparo, the issue is "systemic".

As for the single side symptom, nothing is perfectly balanced (aka not a perfect analog world). It is possible that prolonged leakage more so on one side's turbo has damaged that side's seal and not the other's.

 

Is there any way to insure that the seal is good without actually bolting it to the car and running it to see if it smokes?

 

Prolley ,I'm sure you could perform a "leak-down type test), by sealing the drain and pressurizing the feed (most likely only a few psi is acceptable), I just don't know what "normal" should be. But that's a really good question for a Garret engineer.