Motor is officially BLOWN! Yes it was Forged
11-06-2005, 09:02 AM
#62
Sorry I missed this thread while I was away at SEMA. Yes, I kept in contact with George while the testing was going on.
I managed to skim most of this thread, and wanted to point out a couple of things.
The car was tuning via MAP (pressure) so there was no issue with the MAF maxing out. Jorge's ECU was throwing up no more than 20 degrees of timing advance at redline...and low teens at trq peak. I dont have Jorge's file handy....Jorge...send it to me please. But timing was adjusted at the trq peak, IIRC. As I have tuned about 50 VQ's, I cant recall the exact timing adjustments I made to Jorge's map. AF was flatlined at close to 11.0:1
For reference, I am running 24 degrees of timing advance at redline on 93 octane pump fuel, and 16psi of boost rather than Jorge's 12.5psi and 20 degrees of advance. I tuned George's car just like every other customer's car....much more conservatively than I would tune my own. This is even more conservative than SGP tune's their customer's cars. We always err on the side of caution, when it comes to tuning a customer's car.
I feel terrible that his motor is damaged, but I feel strongly this was not an issue of tuning. Engine's can break for a variety of reasons, and even after a tear down, the cause of the failure can be unclear. Jorge also had issues with coolant overheat, so its possible the engine was damaged as a result of overheating. Again, this is all speculation on my part...we'll know more once the engine is broken down and examined.
Lastly, my car is dialy abused on pump gas, and probably puts down 600whp with its current tune. I only pulled 2 degrees of timing at redline, in comparison to the 100 octane 622hp run.
I managed to skim most of this thread, and wanted to point out a couple of things.
The car was tuning via MAP (pressure) so there was no issue with the MAF maxing out. Jorge's ECU was throwing up no more than 20 degrees of timing advance at redline...and low teens at trq peak. I dont have Jorge's file handy....Jorge...send it to me please.
But timing was adjusted at the trq peak, IIRC. As I have tuned about 50 VQ's, I cant recall the exact timing adjustments I made to Jorge's map. AF was flatlined at close to 11.0:1For reference, I am running 24 degrees of timing advance at redline on 93 octane pump fuel, and 16psi of boost rather than Jorge's 12.5psi and 20 degrees of advance. I tuned George's car just like every other customer's car....much more conservatively than I would tune my own. This is even more conservative than SGP tune's their customer's cars. We always err on the side of caution, when it comes to tuning a customer's car.
I feel terrible that his motor is damaged, but I feel strongly this was not an issue of tuning. Engine's can break for a variety of reasons, and even after a tear down, the cause of the failure can be unclear. Jorge also had issues with coolant overheat, so its possible the engine was damaged as a result of overheating. Again, this is all speculation on my part...we'll know more once the engine is broken down and examined.
Lastly, my car is dialy abused on pump gas, and probably puts down 600whp with its current tune. I only pulled 2 degrees of timing at redline, in comparison to the 100 octane 622hp run.
11-06-2005, 09:39 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by sentry65
how many people are running 550whp or so on a built block with no issues? Seems like there's some sort of coolant or oil problem above 500whp right? like the water pump or oil pump aren't strong enough to keep the engine cool with that much power? Think I read that somewhere as being a theory
sorry to hear about the bad news
I'm going to keep my vortech under 400whp on my stock block
sorry to hear about the bad news
I'm going to keep my vortech under 400whp on my stock block552rwhp/548tq @ 15.5psi... only issue is a leaky turbo feed line that i will fix one of these days, maybe when i pull my motor to swap in a fully sleeved/built motor that will see 650-700whp on a weekly basis
11-06-2005, 10:01 AM
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We CNC'd a bunch of MAF flanges. Making a larger MAF housing is easy
What size you guys need,3.25",3.5",larger?The problem with going up on the size of your MAF sensor housing is less velocity over the hotwire at idle,part throttle,etc...... which can result in the car not running as smoothly in these ranges.
This will have more of an effect with cars running pre-maf turbo then post, like most of us are.Unless ofcourse you run a huge 90mm MAF housing like the crazy Mustang guys
The one thing that hasnt been mentioned here is a timing retard/fuel enrichment, based on temperature, which most/all(not sure on this one) of the piggybacks are lacking.This is a great way to avoid catosprophy if you are dealing with huge temerature fluctuations or just extreme temperatures and forced induction.The factory has its own compensations but I would think that they are not adequate for FI cars.
What size you guys need,3.25",3.5",larger?The problem with going up on the size of your MAF sensor housing is less velocity over the hotwire at idle,part throttle,etc...... which can result in the car not running as smoothly in these ranges.This will have more of an effect with cars running pre-maf turbo then post, like most of us are.Unless ofcourse you run a huge 90mm MAF housing like the crazy Mustang guys
The one thing that hasnt been mentioned here is a timing retard/fuel enrichment, based on temperature, which most/all(not sure on this one) of the piggybacks are lacking.This is a great way to avoid catosprophy if you are dealing with huge temerature fluctuations or just extreme temperatures and forced induction.The factory has its own compensations but I would think that they are not adequate for FI cars.
Last edited by TurboTim; 11-06-2005 at 10:03 AM.
11-06-2005, 10:10 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by paranormal
can any machine shop do this? how much would one charge for this.. i think this is a great idea.. since my problem was a rod end bearing from oil.... can you reccomend any other precaution with being over the 500hp mark? like larger radiator? ect...
thanks tim.. i should be contacting you in a month or two for a 3" exhaust btw do you guys have 3" test pipes?
ps... sorry gmann.. hopefully its not as bad as you think.. if i were you i would keep the car forever since youve put so much into it and have it be your project for life... thats what im gonna do... hopefully its just a valve.. i dont think you have that much damage going on
thanks tim.. i should be contacting you in a month or two for a 3" exhaust btw do you guys have 3" test pipes?
ps... sorry gmann.. hopefully its not as bad as you think.. if i were you i would keep the car forever since youve put so much into it and have it be your project for life... thats what im gonna do... hopefully its just a valve.. i dont think you have that much damage going on
I wouldnt trust "any" machine shop to perp-drill your crank.My buddy who owns one of the big connecting rod companies does it for us.It has to be done right and re-balanced,etc.......
11-06-2005, 02:26 PM
#66
In regards to temp correction, the factory temp correction via MAF will remain in effect until about 5000rpm when the MAF voltage is maxed. This is another reason we tune customer cars to 11.0:1 or close to that level, to allow for colder/denser air conditions...that will not harm the motor. The EU also has coolant and intake temp correction tables...but there are several schools of thought on how best to apply them.
Most customers that are running 500whp+ realize that they have to monitor their wideband gauges from time to time. Jorge was great with this...and was constantly checking.
Most customers that are running 500whp+ realize that they have to monitor their wideband gauges from time to time. Jorge was great with this...and was constantly checking.
11-06-2005, 05:28 PM
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Sharif I could never figure out how to load the driver and therefore can't communicate with the EU. The shipping company will pick the car up this Saturday and the should get to SGP with in 1 week.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
11-06-2005, 05:52 PM
#68
Well, you got some time to think about it. Modding the Z is never cheap, but modding a Z06 isnt a ride on easy street either. You probably wont be happy with it until its twin turboed and making 900whp.
I had the chance to test drive xsPaul's C6, with the 6 speed auto, and that thing was unreal. Just gobs of instant trq, and you could actually apply it to the ground. It is by far the nicest American sports car I have even driven.
I had the chance to test drive xsPaul's C6, with the 6 speed auto, and that thing was unreal. Just gobs of instant trq, and you could actually apply it to the ground.
It is by far the nicest American sports car I have even driven.
Originally Posted by Gman2004
Sharif I could never figure out how to load the driver and therefore can't communicate with the EU. The shipping company will pick the car up this Saturday and the should get to SGP with in 1 week.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
11-06-2005, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
modding a Z06 isnt a ride on easy street either. You probably wont be happy with it until its twin turboed and making 900whp.
hahaha....i have been browsing ligenfelter.com also.
I start to get warm and fuzzy, but then I knock myself back to reality. I don't want to start all over again....for that I just stay were I am at. you right though, I got some time to think about it.
11-06-2005, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
Sharif I could never figure out how to load the driver and therefore can't communicate with the EU. The shipping company will pick the car up this Saturday and the should get to SGP with in 1 week.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
Man I am so torn on what to do.....sell the car or keep it. One minute I just want to get of it and the next I am telling myself no way I can sell it. I have been lurking on the vette forums the last few days and the new Z06 is looking pretty bad ***. Cams, CAI, and long tube headers got it from 443rwhp and 413tq to 505rwhp and 475tq. Not bad for some bolt ons. You can find dealers that are selling them are MSRP of $70K with no markup.
11-07-2005, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 4mrBMWguy
A vette!? Sorry, but the cheese factor is still there IMO. I don't care what the numbers are a vette lacks class, style, and sophistication. Personally, I hope you decide to keep your G. Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.
11-07-2005, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Git-R-Done
One word....VIPER
11-07-2005, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by g356gear
http://www.lingenfelter.com/pack_cor_c6_427.htm
Eitherway, I am not at a point in my life where I can justify spending $125K+ on a car......not yet!
This could be an option though......$50K for a C6 and $20K for a twin turbo kit/install plus a 2 year/24K mile warranty.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/pack_cor_c5_550.htm
11-07-2005, 04:40 PM
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Jorge,
Sorry to hear what happened to your car man. Atleast I got to take a ride in it while you were here in Charlotte. Very nice car and hate to hear how it brokedown. Your G was the first FI car I had been in. I hope you keep the car but on the flip side not being able to drive it isn't fun. Best of luck to you bro. Hope everything goes your way.
Ruben
Sorry to hear what happened to your car man. Atleast I got to take a ride in it while you were here in Charlotte. Very nice car and hate to hear how it brokedown. Your G was the first FI car I had been in. I hope you keep the car but on the flip side not being able to drive it isn't fun. Best of luck to you bro. Hope everything goes your way.
Ruben
11-07-2005, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue_pen
Jorge,
Sorry to hear what happened to your car man. Atleast I got to take a ride in it while you were here in Charlotte. Very nice car and hate to hear how it brokedown. Your G was the first FI car I had been in. I hope you keep the car but on the flip side not being able to drive it isn't fun. Best of luck to you bro. Hope everything goes your way.
Ruben
Sorry to hear what happened to your car man. Atleast I got to take a ride in it while you were here in Charlotte. Very nice car and hate to hear how it brokedown. Your G was the first FI car I had been in. I hope you keep the car but on the flip side not being able to drive it isn't fun. Best of luck to you bro. Hope everything goes your way.
Ruben
