Are You For Or Against Boost?
#61
why did we buy 350Z's?
for the power? For the handling? For the looks? for the well-roundedness?
There's cars out there that are WAY easier to get more power and make faster in a straight line than the Z and WAY cheaper to mod. And you can buy them used for dirt cheap too.
I think turboing disturbs the handling aspect of the Z more than I think it's worth. To me, supercharging and NA mods are the best compromise in power, reliability, cost, and handling compared to a turbo. The Z in itself is a compromise. It isn't the best at anything really other than it's looks are subjective.
for the power? For the handling? For the looks? for the well-roundedness?
There's cars out there that are WAY easier to get more power and make faster in a straight line than the Z and WAY cheaper to mod. And you can buy them used for dirt cheap too.
I think turboing disturbs the handling aspect of the Z more than I think it's worth. To me, supercharging and NA mods are the best compromise in power, reliability, cost, and handling compared to a turbo. The Z in itself is a compromise. It isn't the best at anything really other than it's looks are subjective.
#63
Originally Posted by MagicPie
Yeah and people say turbos have too much lag-- not when there well designed 4X turbos and a 2.5sec 0-60 there no lag in there
I take 4 turbo's at 5.5 psi....hope some desighn's that kit for the VQ 2 under the hood...2 in the exhaust.
#64
Originally Posted by Blue Komodo
It won't get you around a road course any faster, it will probably actually make you slower. If I just wanted to pump people in a straight line, I would have bought a different car.
Check out our (VRT's) video; http://violentracing.com/Videos/new11_2005.htm
Last edited by WA2GOOD; 12-06-2005 at 10:37 PM.
#65
If you could build a smog legal car with the same HP as a boosted car. I would go N/A.
I don't care for the turbo lag. Not to mention the added heat. I also like a N/A car coming out of the corners. Generally, you can get much better use of a N/A car out of a corner compared to a boosted car. You either have too little or too much.
Don't get me wrong Turbo cars are fun. I have owned a bunch. However, for reliability, heat, control, I like N/A with the same power better.
Unfortunately, the only way to get good street legal HP in a Z is in boosted form imho.
In my case, I don't need more than what the Z has stock on the street.
For the track, I'll take the Camaro I built.
I don't care for the turbo lag. Not to mention the added heat. I also like a N/A car coming out of the corners. Generally, you can get much better use of a N/A car out of a corner compared to a boosted car. You either have too little or too much.
Don't get me wrong Turbo cars are fun. I have owned a bunch. However, for reliability, heat, control, I like N/A with the same power better.
Unfortunately, the only way to get good street legal HP in a Z is in boosted form imho.
In my case, I don't need more than what the Z has stock on the street.
For the track, I'll take the Camaro I built.
Last edited by Z_Driver; 12-06-2005 at 10:35 PM.
#68
Originally Posted by WA2GOOD
Although I have a 300 whp NA G, I also have a TT G and a TT'ed Z. I will tell you right now that the FI'ed cars are alot faster on a road course and in general. I know power isn't everything, but it's what works. You do have to keep up with the rest of the car by addressing the brakes and suspension. See what I mean, watch this.......
Check out our (VRT's) video; http://violentracing.com/Videos/new11_2005.htm
Check out our (VRT's) video; http://violentracing.com/Videos/new11_2005.htm
#69
Originally Posted by Blue Komodo
I find boosted high HP RWD cars either upset the chassis off my intended line, or have traction issues exiting turns when pushed hard in comparison to NA. If your willing to throw several grand at dyno tunning, then yes you can get it linear and smooth. Your tuner would have to know your EMS, and know what he's doing. On courses with a decent straight, boost will yield an advantage. However, a well configured NA offering of the same car should be within 1 to 3 seconds with an average straight. That difference isn't worth 10 to 15 grand for a well done FI system in my opinion. Post your lap times for the NA vs. TT G's, at Willow.
It takes some getting used to and finess to handle a 500+ whp Z on a (real) race track, but if you can, it is a unforgetable ride. "Can you say pucker effect" LOL
Last edited by WA2GOOD; 12-07-2005 at 12:46 AM.
#70
there's nothing that makes goosebumps emerge like the sound of a turbo spooling up followed by the whistle of a blow-off valve....but!...i will keep my Z na...the Z demands respect, one way or the other.
#72
[QUOTE=da45king]4 turbo's only at 6 psi....people need to take notice....high boost adversly affects longevity.QUOTE]
that is not true at all. there are many turbos that run at high boost and are entirely reliable.
anyone on here a trucker? those huge turbo diesels are extremely reliable and run much more than 6 psi. its not unheard of to get 100,000's of miles on them. or how about the numerous turbo cars the states have had? there are not that many that have longevity affected moreso than an n/a alternative.
if a motor is built with boost in mind it can be just as reliable as an n/a car, perhaps even moreso.
that is not true at all. there are many turbos that run at high boost and are entirely reliable.
anyone on here a trucker? those huge turbo diesels are extremely reliable and run much more than 6 psi. its not unheard of to get 100,000's of miles on them. or how about the numerous turbo cars the states have had? there are not that many that have longevity affected moreso than an n/a alternative.
if a motor is built with boost in mind it can be just as reliable as an n/a car, perhaps even moreso.
#73
I had more issue with them playing Green day then the gangsta rap. Anyways, the later part of the video, they started to do all right with techno.
But you gotta admit, it kinda puts a smile to your face when you see videos of 350Z passing by porsches, corvettes, M3, M5, etc.
But you gotta admit, it kinda puts a smile to your face when you see videos of 350Z passing by porsches, corvettes, M3, M5, etc.
Originally Posted by sentry65
that VRT video...
nothing makes you feel like you're racing fast as hell quite like laid back gangsta rap...
nothing makes you feel like you're racing fast as hell quite like laid back gangsta rap...
#74
there's some BS in that video - saying the Z will pass ALL of those cars - implying that it's better than all of them
the TT Z will pass the 2006 Z06? whatever. Maybe in instances where the Z06 driver sucks and you're good...not saying the TT Z is a bad setup or anything, but that video is plain marketing
the TT Z will pass the 2006 Z06? whatever. Maybe in instances where the Z06 driver sucks and you're good...not saying the TT Z is a bad setup or anything, but that video is plain marketing
#75
Some of you guys making references to "out of the corner lag" are referring to either a car with little torque or a car that makes TQ in the upper revs. Sure a big V8 will have more TQ out of the corner, but the Z already makes decent TQ, you're not falling out of the torque, but back to stock and then you get a kick in the pants. And honestly 99% of the people never go to the track and all this talk of what it does on the track is really not a valid arguement for most.
#76
Originally Posted by WA2GOOD
I completely understand what you are saying. You have to get a feel for the car when it is boosted and it becomes ALOT more finicky, a real drivers car. The NA and S/C cars tend to be more predictable and much more easier to drive. I have run a 1.30.437 in a TT'ed Z, and a 1.35.629 is the best in the NA G at Big Willow Springs. 5 seconds + per lap is alot!
It takes some getting used to and finess to handle a 500+ whp Z on a (real) race track, but if you can, it is a unforgetable ride. "Can you say pucker effect" LOL
It takes some getting used to and finess to handle a 500+ whp Z on a (real) race track, but if you can, it is a unforgetable ride. "Can you say pucker effect" LOL
#77
[QUOTE=PoWeRtRiP]
boost is less reliable and has adverse affects on the motor, more stress, plus, you cant compare deisel to gas, much lower temperatures in deisel engines.
Originally Posted by da45king
4 turbo's only at 6 psi....people need to take notice....high boost adversly affects longevity.QUOTE]
that is not true at all. there are many turbos that run at high boost and are entirely reliable.
anyone on here a trucker? those huge turbo diesels are extremely reliable and run much more than 6 psi. its not unheard of to get 100,000's of miles on them. or how about the numerous turbo cars the states have had? there are not that many that have longevity affected moreso than an n/a alternative.
if a motor is built with boost in mind it can be just as reliable as an n/a car, perhaps even moreso.
that is not true at all. there are many turbos that run at high boost and are entirely reliable.
anyone on here a trucker? those huge turbo diesels are extremely reliable and run much more than 6 psi. its not unheard of to get 100,000's of miles on them. or how about the numerous turbo cars the states have had? there are not that many that have longevity affected moreso than an n/a alternative.
if a motor is built with boost in mind it can be just as reliable as an n/a car, perhaps even moreso.
#78
Originally Posted by Blue Komodo
Wow, 5 seconds is a much bigger diff than I've seen first hand. At the end of the day your right. If you have enough seat time to really get to know the car, the boost hitting during weight transfer won't bite your head off, because you'll know what to expect. A lot of that also depends on the tune. Personally though, I'd throw the 15K at wheels/tires, gears, flywheel/clutch, aerodynamics, bolt on's and fuel control for track work. Instead of spending 15K on a turbo install alone.
yeah I agree
you also won't look as rediculous trying to floor the gas pedal and breaking loose the tires every single time. The first few times is amusing, after that it's nice to actually go somewhere when you floor the gas
#79
Originally Posted by RED HOT Z
^^^shut up
Originally Posted by EdgeOfSanity
i can't decide whether or not i want to explain why you're an idiot.
Love for the haters. I love how there's always a few haters out there to keep things real.
Originally Posted by Snow Owl
Excellent point and very well put. I am of similar opinion. I grew up racing karts and amateur rally and have been around the automotive industry for quite a while. Having just turned 30 I have sort of 'mellowed' from my 'power' trip somewhat.
I eventually realized that with enough - time, money, and dedication - anyone can make nearly any car go fast. Someone is always going to be faster, and more powerful.
That is why I ONLY judge cars as they come direct from the factory as the manufacturer intended. Judging "modded" vehicles is futile. That is not to say I don't like the aftermarket, I love it, but I don't go around comparing those such vehicles.
What I am trying to say is that: my STi is modded and is fairly quick, but I don't go around comparing it to other STi's. Some will be faster, and many will be slower, but it's only due to the fact that I have invested more time and money into it than somebody else. There is a 808HP EVO 8 in Chicago, why would I compare my, or any other car, to that?
The Z/VQ NA set-up is plenty enough for me and I love it for what it is....
Just my 2 cents.
I eventually realized that with enough - time, money, and dedication - anyone can make nearly any car go fast. Someone is always going to be faster, and more powerful.
That is why I ONLY judge cars as they come direct from the factory as the manufacturer intended. Judging "modded" vehicles is futile. That is not to say I don't like the aftermarket, I love it, but I don't go around comparing those such vehicles.
What I am trying to say is that: my STi is modded and is fairly quick, but I don't go around comparing it to other STi's. Some will be faster, and many will be slower, but it's only due to the fact that I have invested more time and money into it than somebody else. There is a 808HP EVO 8 in Chicago, why would I compare my, or any other car, to that?
The Z/VQ NA set-up is plenty enough for me and I love it for what it is....
Just my 2 cents.
I'd rather have an M3 than a F/I Z. And I'd rather have a 997 than a S/C M3. The tuning from the factory is the true engineering factor. You aren't thinking what the engineers were thinking as you are "bolting on" your aftermarket turbos.
Both require engineering. You cant say boost is the easy way out. And boost isnt trendy, its been around for a while.
Forced induction is just a trendy thing to do. Everyone oogles at boost. I don't hear many aspirations about "building my VQ to put out 300whp all-motor". Why? It's f*cken HARD. It's just not built for it. That being said, I would never ever add a TT to my car.
this is not accurate. first of all, do not compare the engine in the 350z to the engine in the m3. the m3's engine would be like a nismo engine since bmw motorsport did it, and bmw m is a different company legally. to compare apples to apples, nismo vq35s are producing just as much power, if not more, than bmw m's s54. see here for example:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157508
as far as revving goes, sure the S54 may rev higher but the VQ gets out to 7,2xx which isnt bad. IIRC performance nissan got it to 7800rpms. That's not bad either. Also consider the reliability factor: how many problems has bmw had with S54s? At first they were blaming owners for the failures! I think it's safe to say the VQ at least as reliable, if not more so. And as far as the money factor goes- you can get a Z for nearly half the cost. So even if it took $10k, you'd still be "ahead". Note that I'm not saying the Z is a better car than the M3, but I am saying that the VQ has just as much potential as the flat six BMW has employed.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157508
as far as revving goes, sure the S54 may rev higher but the VQ gets out to 7,2xx which isnt bad. IIRC performance nissan got it to 7800rpms. That's not bad either. Also consider the reliability factor: how many problems has bmw had with S54s? At first they were blaming owners for the failures! I think it's safe to say the VQ at least as reliable, if not more so. And as far as the money factor goes- you can get a Z for nearly half the cost. So even if it took $10k, you'd still be "ahead". Note that I'm not saying the Z is a better car than the M3, but I am saying that the VQ has just as much potential as the flat six BMW has employed.
The S54 is definitely on a different level, however I make the comparison to make an example of different levels of performance. I have to disagree with you on comparing the S54 with the Rtune Z in the link. The M3 still appeals to more than the high-performance crowd. So I think a fairer comparison would be to the Nismo S-Tune. (I think it runs at the same price too .. around $60k) It makes a strong 300hp, but it is still weak compared to the M3. I think the new Rtune is more comparable to the M3 CSL (which is not sold here). That Euro version of the M3 is very race oriented (I believed its like carbon fiber roof and interior, no power seats). It puts out like 361bhp or something IIRC and will have no problem outperforming the new Z. If you look back a few years in Car magazine (the British one) there is an article where they compare a 996 Carrera to the M3 CSL. I think that's a more fair comparison. Also, on the costing more than twice as much... My Z's MSRP was $37,600... The M3 (loaded) I wanted was $56,800... The difference in price is justified I believe... Why? Engine, build quality, interior quality, ride quality, performance, overall package.
Oh, and on terms of the realiability of the engine. BMW eventually replaced the failing rods on all the early S54 engines. Nissan... has still not offered a true solution to the problem of tire feathering. I don't think new tires and new alignment specs were the solution, but that's just me.
#80
Originally Posted by sentry65
there's some BS in that video - saying the Z will pass ALL of those cars - implying that it's better than all of them
the TT Z will pass the 2006 Z06? whatever. Maybe in instances where the Z06 driver sucks and you're good...not saying the TT Z is a bad setup or anything, but that video is plain marketing
the TT Z will pass the 2006 Z06? whatever. Maybe in instances where the Z06 driver sucks and you're good...not saying the TT Z is a bad setup or anything, but that video is plain marketing
I understand you finding this hard to believe, the '06 Z06 IS an AWESOME car out of box (in fact my favorite for under 80 grand). Yet IMO, it is impressive what these Z's and G's can do once they have had a VRT upgrade. VRT can, and does build a complete brand new turn key Z or G that WILL outperform most any street car.....and all cars coming from the factory dollar-for-dollar for under 65K.
Sorry not trying to sound like an ad here , just trying to clarify something.... Ok I'm done with that...
Track days are allot of fun and a great learning experience. I wish more Z and G owners would come out to some track days and let their car do what it was designed to do....after all, these ARE Sports Cars and Sport Luxury Sports cars, RIGHT??!!
Well that was my .02 cents (probably more like $2. LOL )
N-E-Ways hope to see more of you forum guys showing up at more track days in 2006. Have a safe and happy Holiday and a prosperous New Year.
Last edited by WA2GOOD; 12-08-2005 at 04:42 AM.