UTEC stuff, will someone that has pics of the map selector mounted post your pics
Don't take it personally... I am a little touchy. Damn personality flaw. Is it that obvious? I should take it out on my wife instead of you guys. There is no reason to build different MAP's for different boost levels. You optimize each MAP for the octane you are using. If you use two octanes, let's say 93 for daily driving and 100 for the race track then you will have 2 MAP's. The UTEC should be utilized to control the boost via a boost control solenoid. So you just flip the MAP selector to the MAP appropriate for the octane you are using.
The reality here is that there is no reason to use race gas as yo uca nspin the tires all day long on a 93 octane MAP. Yeah... let's go put in $5 per gallon race gas so we can make even less traction. 425 rwhp or 500 bhp is the realistic limit to what you can utilize with an R compound 295 tire. The hp threshold arguably could be lower than that as the temp drops below 60 degrees.
425 rwhp can be easilly made on 93 pump gas. So why use 100 octane race gas. There is no reason.
All that said.... You only need 1 MAP which is all I have. I spin my tires through first and most of second gear @ 386 rwhp or 455 bhp. My car is a street car.
I drive my car 90% of the time off boost. I generally shift my car below 4000 rpm during daily driving. I'm hardly ever boosting over 3 psi. Max boost for me is 7psi.
So what is the need for a seperate MAP. There is no reason. You have a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Respect
JET
The reality here is that there is no reason to use race gas as yo uca nspin the tires all day long on a 93 octane MAP. Yeah... let's go put in $5 per gallon race gas so we can make even less traction. 425 rwhp or 500 bhp is the realistic limit to what you can utilize with an R compound 295 tire. The hp threshold arguably could be lower than that as the temp drops below 60 degrees.
425 rwhp can be easilly made on 93 pump gas. So why use 100 octane race gas. There is no reason.
All that said.... You only need 1 MAP which is all I have. I spin my tires through first and most of second gear @ 386 rwhp or 455 bhp. My car is a street car.
I drive my car 90% of the time off boost. I generally shift my car below 4000 rpm during daily driving. I'm hardly ever boosting over 3 psi. Max boost for me is 7psi.
So what is the need for a seperate MAP. There is no reason. You have a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Respect
JET
Don't take it personally... I am a little touchy. Damn personality flaw. Is it that obvious? I should take it out on my wife instead of you guys. There is no reason to build different MAP's for different boost levels. You optimize each MAP for the octane you are using. If you use two octanes, let's say 93 for daily driving and 100 for the race track then you will have 2 MAP's. The UTEC should be utilized to control the boost via a boost control solenoid. So you just flip the MAP selector to the MAP appropriate for the octane you are using.
The reality here is that there is no reason to use race gas as yo uca nspin the tires all day long on a 93 octane MAP. Yeah... let's go put in $5 per gallon race gas so we can make even less traction. 425 rwhp or 500 bhp is the realistic limit to what you can utilize with an R compound 295 tire. The hp threshold arguably could be lower than that as the temp drops below 60 degrees.
425 rwhp can be easilly made on 93 pump gas. So why use 100 octane race gas. There is no reason.
All that said.... You only need 1 MAP which is all I have. I spin my tires through first and most of second gear @ 386 rwhp or 455 bhp. My car is a street car.
I drive my car 90% of the time off boost. I generally shift my car below 4000 rpm during daily driving. I'm hardly ever boosting over 3 psi. Max boost for me is 7psi.
So what is the need for a seperate MAP. There is no reason. You have a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Respect
JET
The reality here is that there is no reason to use race gas as yo uca nspin the tires all day long on a 93 octane MAP. Yeah... let's go put in $5 per gallon race gas so we can make even less traction. 425 rwhp or 500 bhp is the realistic limit to what you can utilize with an R compound 295 tire. The hp threshold arguably could be lower than that as the temp drops below 60 degrees.
425 rwhp can be easilly made on 93 pump gas. So why use 100 octane race gas. There is no reason.
All that said.... You only need 1 MAP which is all I have. I spin my tires through first and most of second gear @ 386 rwhp or 455 bhp. My car is a street car.
I drive my car 90% of the time off boost. I generally shift my car below 4000 rpm during daily driving. I'm hardly ever boosting over 3 psi. Max boost for me is 7psi.
So what is the need for a seperate MAP. There is no reason. You have a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Respect
JET
This is getting hilarious!!!! So where was the switch mounted? LOL. Just because you spin them in 1st, 2nd and part of third doesn't mean you don't want that power in the higher gears. It can't be that hard to get your head around this idea?
I think the main arguement against you JET was "why have different boost settings" and we are trying to tell you why. Your car is tuned to 386whp. That is not that much. Again, someone that is in the 500whp range (and uses slicks at the track) doesnt want to switch their wastegate springs every time the go to the track hence the boost controller as you metnioned.
Ideally, even though it has not been done yet as far as I know, one way that having different maps for boost would be ideal would be if there could be a variable boost control that adjust boost based on gear number and RPM. Even though this is not the scenario at question I still think this would be a good system in which you could get better acceleration on street tires. What I mean is that in lower gears or when you launch from a stop with street tires you are most likely to lose traction (in comparison to say 6th gear). For someone like Shariff who is in the 600whp range, it may not be logical for him to use all 600 hp continuosly on the street with street tires. So he turns the boost down. It would be a really neat idea if someone came up with a way to have tuned boost levels such as you do A/F. meaning, if the boost could be lowered to only 7psi at launch and in 1st and 2nd gear (when many people say they are losing traction) and possibly in the beginning of 3rd gear (again some people lose traction for a short amount of time), and then as the RPM raises (meaning higher mph and a better chance of catching traction) the boost could gradually get higher allowing more acceleration.
I just wanted to say sorry for hijacking this thread, but this could be interesting. If you could tune a solonoid in 100 or 250 increments (or whatever increments would make sense) and have it also controlled by gear number, you could tune for maximum acceleration without lose of traction.
For example. Say that in 1st gear you lose traction throughout the entire gear at 8psi but hold traction at 7.5 psi. You could have it tuned so that in 1st gear your car only sees 7.5psi in 1st throughout the entire rpm range. Say the same goes for 2nd gear also. but how about in 3rd (where most seem to be eventually getting traction).
Say this was the situation:
after shifting, between 2000-4500 rpms you lose traction and then finally grab (since even during traction lose you will still be accelerating slightly and therefore increasing load somewhat due to aerodynamics and friction of moving parts) at 8psi. Say that someone like shariff would like to see 10psi worth of power but would just lose traction all the way through 3rd. What if he could start 3rd gear at 7.5 psi and as the rpms rise tune the boost higher and higher never going so high that he loses traction but also not limiting himself to the 7.5psi worth of power in order to keep traction. A boost controller as of right now just stops at a given point and is generally set (when using street tires) for whatever is going to give the most realistic and powerful driving experience without traction lose (assuming you are really trying yo show some one up and not jsut burn you tires). but what if you could optimize the full capabilities of your turbo for street tires. Anything above 400hp, as mentioned before by JET I believe, is mainly just spinning tires for a while. I think this would be an awsome idea.
Do you guys follow what I am saying?
Ideally, even though it has not been done yet as far as I know, one way that having different maps for boost would be ideal would be if there could be a variable boost control that adjust boost based on gear number and RPM. Even though this is not the scenario at question I still think this would be a good system in which you could get better acceleration on street tires. What I mean is that in lower gears or when you launch from a stop with street tires you are most likely to lose traction (in comparison to say 6th gear). For someone like Shariff who is in the 600whp range, it may not be logical for him to use all 600 hp continuosly on the street with street tires. So he turns the boost down. It would be a really neat idea if someone came up with a way to have tuned boost levels such as you do A/F. meaning, if the boost could be lowered to only 7psi at launch and in 1st and 2nd gear (when many people say they are losing traction) and possibly in the beginning of 3rd gear (again some people lose traction for a short amount of time), and then as the RPM raises (meaning higher mph and a better chance of catching traction) the boost could gradually get higher allowing more acceleration.
I just wanted to say sorry for hijacking this thread, but this could be interesting. If you could tune a solonoid in 100 or 250 increments (or whatever increments would make sense) and have it also controlled by gear number, you could tune for maximum acceleration without lose of traction.
For example. Say that in 1st gear you lose traction throughout the entire gear at 8psi but hold traction at 7.5 psi. You could have it tuned so that in 1st gear your car only sees 7.5psi in 1st throughout the entire rpm range. Say the same goes for 2nd gear also. but how about in 3rd (where most seem to be eventually getting traction).
Say this was the situation:
after shifting, between 2000-4500 rpms you lose traction and then finally grab (since even during traction lose you will still be accelerating slightly and therefore increasing load somewhat due to aerodynamics and friction of moving parts) at 8psi. Say that someone like shariff would like to see 10psi worth of power but would just lose traction all the way through 3rd. What if he could start 3rd gear at 7.5 psi and as the rpms rise tune the boost higher and higher never going so high that he loses traction but also not limiting himself to the 7.5psi worth of power in order to keep traction. A boost controller as of right now just stops at a given point and is generally set (when using street tires) for whatever is going to give the most realistic and powerful driving experience without traction lose (assuming you are really trying yo show some one up and not jsut burn you tires). but what if you could optimize the full capabilities of your turbo for street tires. Anything above 400hp, as mentioned before by JET I believe, is mainly just spinning tires for a while. I think this would be an awsome idea.
Do you guys follow what I am saying?
If would like to further discuss what I mentioned in the above post let me know so we can start a seperate thread. I think this would be amazing and I would bet this would drastically improve 1/4 mile times on street tires because you could run more power
Originally Posted by theking
This is getting hilarious!!!! So where was the switch mounted? LOL. Just because you spin them in 1st, 2nd and part of third doesn't mean you don't want that power in the higher gears. It can't be that hard to get your head around this idea?
said?The gas pedal.... that's all you need. You see 600hp exotics turbo or NA having a problem? Do 600 hp porsche Carrera's come with switches to turn down the hp for city driving? Rediculous.
Respect
JET
Last edited by JETPILOT; Feb 2, 2006 at 08:32 AM.
Ummm JET... a 600 hp Porsche Carrera? Do you realize that the entire car was designed for that horsepower? Everything from suspension, tire diameter and width, aerodynamics, weight distribution, and everything was designed so that car could be drivable with that horsepower. That car would have the same problems if you added 200hp because you would exceed the intended engineering of the car such as we are doing by turbo charging a 350z.
I just find your above statement JET to be inaccurate That is like saying "If the 1001 hp Bugatti Veyron does not have traction problems without different boost controller settings why should a Z?"
You must remember that 400hp is not always "400hp." I see old VW Beetles doing wheelies all the time and running 10sec. 1/4 miles and they only have 300whp so why doesn't the Z run 10 sec. with 300 hp? Because it is apples to oranges.
The orignal question was having different map selections for different boost levels. The poster soon learned that a map would only be needed for different octanes and not boost levels. Therefore this means that this is a learning experience for the poster. For this reason I would not try to post inaccurate or false information such as "you can control boost with the gas pedal."
You must remember that 400hp is not always "400hp." I see old VW Beetles doing wheelies all the time and running 10sec. 1/4 miles and they only have 300whp so why doesn't the Z run 10 sec. with 300 hp? Because it is apples to oranges.
The orignal question was having different map selections for different boost levels. The poster soon learned that a map would only be needed for different octanes and not boost levels. Therefore this means that this is a learning experience for the poster. For this reason I would not try to post inaccurate or false information such as "you can control boost with the gas pedal."
Originally Posted by Quamen
I just find your above statement JET to be inaccurate That is like saying "If the 1001 hp Bugatti Veyron does not have traction problems without different boost controller settings why should a Z?"
You must remember that 400hp is not always "400hp." I see old VW Beetles doing wheelies all the time and running 10sec. 1/4 miles and they only have 300whp so why doesn't the Z run 10 sec. with 300 hp? Because it is apples to oranges.
The orignal question was having different map selections for different boost levels. The poster soon learned that a map would only be needed for different octanes and not boost levels. Therefore this means that this is a learning experience for the poster. For this reason I would not try to post inaccurate or false information such as "you can control boost with the gas pedal."
You must remember that 400hp is not always "400hp." I see old VW Beetles doing wheelies all the time and running 10sec. 1/4 miles and they only have 300whp so why doesn't the Z run 10 sec. with 300 hp? Because it is apples to oranges.
The orignal question was having different map selections for different boost levels. The poster soon learned that a map would only be needed for different octanes and not boost levels. Therefore this means that this is a learning experience for the poster. For this reason I would not try to post inaccurate or false information such as "you can control boost with the gas pedal."
For me to carry this post on is like banging my head against the wall. Do as you will.
Respect
JET
Originally Posted by Quamen
How can you not understand the need for different boost levels yet?
Respect
JET
Originally Posted by JETPILOT
The whole point being why is there a need for different boost levels. There isn't.
Go get your car tuned to 480whp-550whp and use it for daily driving. After you've done that for a week or so tell me if you don't like the idea of having a map for a lower boost setting on the same octane.
At 543whp I've had a couple of scary experiences on the freeway while passing and weaving in and out of traffic........down shift, smash the gas, I start passing and switching lanes, car hits full boost, and tires start spinning at 80mph while switching lanes. One time I fished tailed it going 90mph, but luckily I recovered. Yes it was my fault, but I am human just like everyone else. For whatever reason, I was fuking off, jamming the radio, or day dreaming, and I almost lost control of my car. If I had a map for daily driving (350-380whp) the chance of that happening would decrease.
Last edited by Gman2004; Feb 2, 2006 at 11:29 AM.
Here is a good example. If someone were so inclined, you could run extremely high boost levels with the stock pistons (assuming that the pistons and rods are able to handle any amount of power produced in which case the stock internals obviously can not) even though they have a high compression which is not generally accepted for the average turbocharged engine. Note the word average. However, with very controlled tuning, high octane race gas, water/methonal injection, and efficient cooling (both engine and air charge) among whatever else would be needed, you could run 15psi on the stock compression pistons (again, given they could handle that much power and that everything else could also). If you ran 15psi at the track (were you were running expensive race gas) but wanted to drive the car daily (pump gas) you would REQUIRE a different boost setting. Otherwise you would say hello detonation goodbye engine.
Now you may ask "Why run high compression then?" To be honest, I would take a high compression turbo engine (assuming it can handle it) over a low compression turbo engine. I would be that those on this forum that have turbo'd Z's with stock internals are running faster 1/4mile times than those with built motors and low compression pistons soley for the sake that they have more power in the low end where the turbo is not spooled up. Also, I have seen people push 500whp with stock internals, however, generally on race gas and used for track use only. Not all, but most. Boost settings are useful in so many ways.
Now you may ask "Why run high compression then?" To be honest, I would take a high compression turbo engine (assuming it can handle it) over a low compression turbo engine. I would be that those on this forum that have turbo'd Z's with stock internals are running faster 1/4mile times than those with built motors and low compression pistons soley for the sake that they have more power in the low end where the turbo is not spooled up. Also, I have seen people push 500whp with stock internals, however, generally on race gas and used for track use only. Not all, but most. Boost settings are useful in so many ways.
Again, also keep in mind that less air means less fuel which means less money you have to pay to drive your car for fun. Why push 500hp when some cocky kid in a civic with bolt ons is playing with you when you could beat him with 350hp. Also, if you are tuned to 600hp why put that stress on your engine everytime you punch the gas when you dont need to?
Unlike Jet-I think it makes sense to have diff boost levels @ the same octane. Even when we hit it, we dont all want 9psi tuned on our cars(400whp or +), Id love a 7psi base map. A 9-9.5psi map on street gas (93oct) and a 10-11psi race gas map. Id still have some space for more maps but tuning all those will get very $$$$
Originally Posted by Alberto
Id still have some space for more maps but tuning all those will get very $$$$