Some JWT TT info from an FI master.
02-12-2006, 08:01 PM
#21
[15:25] taurran2004: yes, but your reference to other setups is ALWAYS a comparison to the APS TT
[15:25] azivman3: ?
[15:25] azivman3: no comparison
[15:26] azivman3: You want some real info on the kit?
[15:26] taurran2004: whats that?
[15:26] azivman3: the turbos they use spool too quickly
[15:26] taurran2004: and?
[15:26] azivman3: the engine can have trouble consuming the amout of air they produce in the lower RPMS
[15:26] azivman3: results in compressor surge
[15:27] azivman3: VRT boys haven't seen it yet
[15:27] azivman3: because most are running cams
[15:27] azivman3: not as prone to show up with cams
[15:27] azivman3: also they might not be looking for it
[15:28] taurran2004: same can be said with the PE TT, but as you stated that can be compensated for
[15:28] azivman3: PE is garbage
[15:28] azivman3: not even in the same league as greddy or jwt
[15:25] azivman3: ?
[15:25] azivman3: no comparison
[15:26] azivman3: You want some real info on the kit?
[15:26] taurran2004: whats that?
[15:26] azivman3: the turbos they use spool too quickly
[15:26] taurran2004: and?
[15:26] azivman3: the engine can have trouble consuming the amout of air they produce in the lower RPMS
[15:26] azivman3: results in compressor surge
[15:27] azivman3: VRT boys haven't seen it yet
[15:27] azivman3: because most are running cams
[15:27] azivman3: not as prone to show up with cams
[15:27] azivman3: also they might not be looking for it
[15:28] taurran2004: same can be said with the PE TT, but as you stated that can be compensated for
[15:28] azivman3: PE is garbage
[15:28] azivman3: not even in the same league as greddy or jwt
Last edited by GurgenPB; 02-12-2006 at 08:07 PM.
02-12-2006, 08:14 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
You are refering to two different conditions. At WOT, the BOV has nothing to do with compressor surge, as compressor surge is not going to occur at WOT, during the normal operation of the VQ motor.
When the throttle plate is closed, the BOV will perform its function, assuming the BOV is properly sized, in order to vent sufficient air to prevent compressor surge.
02-12-2006, 08:17 PM
#23
... As far as the topic is concerned, the compressor surge issue.... the "master" should do some research of his own ,or just use the search button, to look at compressor maps. As far as the PE 1420's (Squill and then I have personally done this on these forums a while back) in relation to the airflow for a 3.5L engine such as ours. If you did that you would see that compressor surge is NOT possible with PE 1420's on THIS motor.
Here it is again:
See the dotted/dashed line on the left of the map? That's called the "Surge Limit" line. The only way you can create a surge condition is if you reach 11 psi at 2000 rpm (referencing the map here) - not gonna happen. Can't speak to the JWTs, if they are smaller, then a surge condition may very well be possible. One will need to do the same analysis to know for certain. Anyway, Zivman, this is called "evidence".
Here it is again:
See the dotted/dashed line on the left of the map? That's called the "Surge Limit" line. The only way you can create a surge condition is if you reach 11 psi at 2000 rpm (referencing the map here) - not gonna happen. Can't speak to the JWTs, if they are smaller, then a surge condition may very well be possible. One will need to do the same analysis to know for certain. Anyway, Zivman, this is called "evidence".
Last edited by GurgenPB; 02-12-2006 at 08:20 PM.
02-12-2006, 08:26 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by ActionJackson
To be carb certified in all states including the hardest one of them all "California" you have to keep all engine components stock so yes that even means stock fuel return system. I don't think its impossible to design a TT kit that does not need to upgrade the stock fuel return system if your design criteria is set right.
^
This is NOT a true statement. CARB requires that only the EMISSIONS system, which includes catalytic converter and the vapor recovery need to stay stock. Of course all changes must be documented and must pass all emissions tests which is no easy task.
02-13-2006, 02:48 AM
#26
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Compressor surge is directly related to the motors ve at a given rpm and how much more flow the turbo puts out at that rpm.. Larger turbos with high cfm and a small turbine housing, when spooled too quick, can cause surging. A BOV only works when it sees a pressure differential across the throttle plate. So, if you're getting into boost too soon at lower rpm and start hearing a flutter, chances are you're surging.
02-13-2006, 04:18 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by atlsupdawg#2
Compressor surge is directly related to the motors ve at a given rpm and how much more flow the turbo puts out at that rpm.. Larger turbos with high cfm and a small turbine housing, when spooled too quick, can cause surging. A BOV only works when it sees a pressure differential across the throttle plate. So, if you're getting into boost too soon at lower rpm and start hearing a flutter, chances are you're surging.
+1
02-13-2006, 05:53 AM
#28
Originally Posted by georgec
If you get the engine load and rpm conditions right up a small hill or on a load based dyno it sounds like air rythmically pulsing back through the air cleaners quietly from side to side. Not easy to describe best I can do is a subtle air noise from each air cleaner under light engine load. 
02-13-2006, 06:42 AM
#29
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I've heard compressor surge on stock EVOs and WRX's before....as Sharif said, it's quite common going from WOT to partial throttle. Happened to me a lot in my old boosted sentra.....1.8L with a GT28R, so it definitely wasn't because the turbo was too small.
02-13-2006, 08:07 AM
#30
well then ive experienced it with my aps single also. a few times under WOT at, say, im shifting to a higher hear, right as i get on it at around 5k rpms, it have heard something similar to that, it kinda felt like i had a boost leak, similar to what my EBC boost cutoff does. like a pft, pft, pft. so thats compressor surge. why would i be getting it.
02-13-2006, 08:12 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by mraturbo
Anyone in Southern Cali want to drive one, let me know!
M
M
02-13-2006, 09:40 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by TK2005
Next time I am in CA (probably summer), I might try to find you guys. I was an "APS or nothing" guy for a while but the JWT kit has me thinking. The only thing that turns me off about the JWT kit is the spiderweb of ugly piping and intercooler. I guess if you never had to look at it, it wouldn't matter. The JWT kit is all that I want performance wise, I just wished it looked better. I guess wanting a hot cruiser is different than a full blown race car.
02-13-2006, 11:10 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by kjbalto
That's funny you say that, I have the JWT kit on my car and I didn't like the way the APS kit looked. To me, the JWT kit looks a lot nicer.
+1, I agree Brian
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