MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I have just recently upgraded to a AAM return fuel system thanks to Sharif @ Forged Internals

Here is the setup that I am running:
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-Greddy TT w/ Intercooler
-AAM 2.5in downpipes
-APS 3in dual exhaust
-APS oil pan
-Crawford Plentum
-AAM return fuel system with 440cc RC injectors (came with Greddy kit)
-255lph in tank fuel pump
-eManage Blue (with 1.39 firmware) 7-0-B are the dip settings
-e-01 with 1.11 firmware
-Innovate LC-1 wideband AFR (displayed on my e-01 under analog 1 input)
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I have been running a MAP that Sharif sent me a long time ago that gave me some ignition timing retard and the ability to boost to 7-7.5psi. This tune still only used the MAF sensor and not the Greddy MAP. Now that I have the return fuel system installed I want to run MAP off of the Greddy sensor and the e-01. I have everything hooked up correctly and the MAP is passing threw the center unit to the main unit. I also have my wideband innovate LC-1 running in to the e-01 so I can tune the car...

I stumbled accross a tune for this setup on CJ Motorsports website... Here is the link http://www.cj-motorsports.com/tunes.htm

I had to load this MAP manually because I can not find my freaking emanage cable, let me tell you that took forever!!! I have everything loaded exactly as it is in the MAP on my PC and the fuel psi set to 60psi static (vac line disconnected).

Long story short, the car does not want to run at all!!! I am getting greater than 20:1 on the wideband at idle. If I reload the old MAP in the car it will start and run fine, but idles at 16-17:1 AFR... But if I load the CJM tune back in it does the exact same thing, ruff idle and lean as hell!

There have been some things that I noticed on this tune that I don't understand why they did and maybe someone can help me with this.

1) They have the injector scale from 210cc to 375cc when I had 280cc to 440cc before. On the website it does not state what size injector they were running, I just assumed that they used the 440cc that came with the Greddy kit. Are they doing this because of the return fuel system setup and the fact that it runs at a different psi than the stock setup?

2) On the Airflow Adjustment map they are taking out (-8) in the 500-1500 RPM range and goes down 7 rows. When I look at the Map on my PC it has throttle position vs. RPM on the map, but the values for the TPS are all blank. I did not think that the emanage was even getting a TPS signal.


I have talked to a few people that have stated that I should just not even use the Airflow Adjsutment MAP at all and just deselect that. And change the injector scaling back to 280cc - 440cc. This should get me running, but I am wondering about the rest of the MAP, specificaly the Add Injector MAP. will this be off big time if I change the injector scale? of deos that get factored in with the change?


Any help would be awesome. Even better would be if someone has a emanage blue base map that will support the mods I have done. I know that I need to get on the dyno to fine tune it and that every MAP is different on every car, but there has to be a good avg starting point, and for some reason the CJM map that is posted is not working for me.

theking

iTrader: (3)

Long story short....If you keep the emanage blue I would take the car to a reputable VQ35 tuner. It sounds like you are a novice to the maf scaling way of tuning for off boost. The emanage ultimate will make your life alot easier for tuning in boost since you already have a wideband. Without seeing the map an easy way to get it running is to deselect the airflow output map and just scale via injector scaling. When running the fuel return system at throttle tip-in it gets rich for a second and then leans back out. The EU has an offset for this. Also 60psi static is a bit high if you aren't running high boost levels. Most set for 48psi or so.

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I would not say I am a novice, but far from an expert...

I plan on switching to the EU or the UTEC later this summer, whne funds are there.

So what you are saying is if I deselct the MAF adjustment map it will run but will flash rich upon boost onset? then figure it self out?

I thought I needed to tune MAF vs RPM in the Airflow Adj MAP not TPS vs RPM like it is being done with the CJM tune.

What injector scaling are you running? is it .560?

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I also found this.....

I noticed that the rotary settings with the CJM tune are 7-0-1. Mine is set to 7-0-B. I am running 1.39 firmware on the emanage so I can tune with the e-01, can I run either set of rotary switch settings or does it have to be one or the other?

westpak

iTrader: (19)

Did you set your fuel pressure properly?

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I have the fuel psi set to 52psi right now with the car warmed up at idle with the vaccum line attached...

I have been out playing with it for a little bit longer now and noticed that I had the passenger side primary wideband o2 still unplugged (idiot!!)... Still have not been able to fix this lean idle problem. Plugged back in the sensor and reset the ecu. I have claibrated my LC-1 properly, at least i think I did. I did not think the car would even run this lean... I am seeing 22.3:1 on the e-01, if I rev it up (3000 rpm or so) it goes to about 11:1 and falls right back to 22.3:1... It is definately running lean, the exhaust burns your eyes if you stand at the back of the car.

I did add the intake manifold at the same time and had to unplug the throttle body, but I have followed the rest proceedure and it revs and idles at the proper rpm.

I am about to just start adding fuel on the add injector map until the thing runs 14:1 at an idle. I have changed the injector scaling back to 300cc - 440cc and it seems to idle slightly better, but still in the 20+:1 AFR, I have also deselected the airflow map and idles a little bit better, but still again 20+ AFR.

Could this be something mechanical? Something in the fuel system that I installed wrong or is broken?

I have also double check my rotary settings and they are 7-0-1.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

The map on my page is a MAP tune file, not a MAF or TPS. It sounds like you have everything all mixed up over there? The file is definatly good as it worked out awesome in the car and I added a little tiny safty net before letting everyone else get their hands on it. It has been used in a couple cars as a base map with no probs.

You probably just need to get all the parameters setup the same

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I will play with it some more tomorrow... I am at a loss here. Maybe I have just been staring at it for too long.

I will keep you guys posted, thanks for the feed back!

phunk

iTrader: (21)

take screen shots and send me pictures of all your parameter screens and your maps and i will look at them.

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

Thanks man, I will do that for sure!

How should I send them to you?

phunk

iTrader: (21)

Just post them here, if there is anything obvious i will point it out. For detailed support you can always contact the guy who you gave your money to... but if anything stands out ill let ya know

phunk

iTrader: (21)

ok i just read your post in its entirety... and you have it setup just plain all wrong. go ahead adn get some screen shots posted up.

as for the injector scaling... pay no attention to the injector size numbers as they mean nothing... pay attention only to the offset that is generated from the 2 numbers. For example, 100/200 would generate the same offset as a 200/400

as for airflow correction... the injector scaling does exactly the same thing. where i have a negative value in the airflow map is to boost the injector scaling manually where its ok to do that... i dont like to have a ton of injector scaling in boost so I will make up for less scaling by puting negative numbers in the airflow map until i get into boost.

Notice on the page you linked to where it says "Fuel Injector Correction factor needs to be set at 0.560." that is what we are talking about there. That .56 is the offset value that I worked with there.

all maps vertical axis needs to be set to relative pressure KPA if you want the map to work at all for you. not only that, but you need to set your vertical axis values to match the ones in my map, because i changed a few of them to get a little resolution where i needed it. make sure your BC is set to 4.85 volts across the line.

this is a very well interpolated map that was a recreation of several other ones. I got very clean results out of this map.

since you didnt buy anything from me i will accept donations paypal at sales@cj-motorsports.com thanks

oh and another thing you need to keep in mind is that i run pretty high fuel pressure when taking the 440s to 450rwhp. like it says on my page, you better jack it up and start from there... if you run that map with standard fuel presure you will probably go pretty lean into boost.

failsafe306

iTrader: (38)

westpak

iTrader: (19)

LOL I missed that he found the site to download the MAP but not to buy the Fuel Return

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Hey Joe, I gave you a couple more pointers in email. I dont think its the fuel system, as you mentioned the car idles fine in MAF mode. You mentioned that you installed a plenum at the same time. Is it possible you have some kind of a leak somewhere, as you mentioned the engine runs rich once you rev it, and your AF seems to be erratic.
Wish I was standing there to help, as its pretty tricky to trouble-shoot this over the internet.

Deselect the airflow adjustment map, scale the injectors from 300-440, and then get that thing tuned. Dont worry....as no map will be perfect....they are all going to need some massaging. Your injector and timing maps should read RPM on the X axis, and pressure on the Y axis.

Keep me posted.

And Joe, Phunk owes me money....so you dont have to pay him anything...I will subtract it from his balance.


That was a lame attempt at a joke.....

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for all of the help guys, I am going to play with this again tomorrow when I get back into town... I am wondering if this thing was running so poorly since I had the stock primary wide band unplugged still from the whole install. That is the bank that I have the LC-1 running off of as well, so I am thinking a good rest of the ecu and all of the pointers you guys gave me should get this thing running good.

Phunk - I do plan on paying you a visit this summer since you are so close to Indiana, we can settle up then!

Sharif - Thanks again for the advise, you always are extremely helpful! Let me know hwne those downpipes are ready!

XBS

iTrader: (29)

You have one of the factory O2 sensors unplugged just hanging there?

MADScientist

iTrader: (3)

I had the factory primary wideband unplugged from doing the install and I forgot to plug it back in... I know, I know, IDIOT!!! However, when I plugged it back in and restarted the car it was still running the same. I am hoping that by restting the ecu (batt disconnect for 24hrs) that this will fix the problem. And hopefully this thing will idle correctly...

That is what had be pulling my hair out, the car should have been idling fine. When I do a MAP trace on the e-01 it is at the part in the MAP that is not making any adjustments,except the universal injector scaling. I also noticed that with the o2 unpluggd the exhaust on the driverside (the one that was plugged in) had vapor coming out, the the passenger side did not.

I will keeep you all posted as to what happens tonight when I get back in town and play with this thing again.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

subscribing to see what other stupid mistakes you made....

theking

iTrader: (3)

An exhaust leak will do that!!!!! Your factory widebands adjust your fuel mixture during off and part throttle circumstances. There is your bad idle.