Not trying to attack your claims either, but keep in mind, you are oversimplifying the process to many here that don't exactly understand all of the steps involved...
I read $300 head stud fix....but the correct machine shop and cost in labor is not really mentioned in detail....I don't care to argue with you, I don't claim to be the expert here in machining, I don't have to be, because I consult with the top experts in the industry (if we are comparing years of experience; our machinist has been doing this for over 20years, and some of the other guys that we have in our network have been doing this 30yrs+)
These guys build 15-20 extremely high powered import motors per month, they, in my book(and many others') set the industry standard


and yes, extensive testing has been done with timeserts (GT motorsports)...conclusively, they insist this is the way to go...

The bottom line, is they laughed at the idea of using helicoils I'm glad it worked on your motor for a few hundred miles..but that doesn't necessarily speak volumes on longevity...

good luck with your project.

 

the $300 is the cost of the studs and helicoils to complete the project. that is not including machining costs. thought i made that clear in my post.
true the saying goes "i don't need to know it all, i just need to know people who do". the guy i use has been building race motors for many years also, and campaigns his own car/team.
i have a tough time believing your guys in the know laughed at this. i feel it is really a ploy to try and discredit me for sales purposes for yourself. hate to say it.
perhaps your OWN thread testing the time-serts would be the better way to accomplish your goal. again, and i can't believe i need to keep proving this to someone who is building motors, that the proof is in the test. this has been tested, what happened? it passed with flying colors. well past the strength of the 1/2" stud itself, as the nut was starting to gall on the upper threads there was so much pressure on it.
out of the box thinking is what is going to take to figure out ways to make this motor hold more power. if someone is not capable of doing this, then they will always be riding on the coat tails of others.

 

sorry got to go to work now, will jump back on this later. i know more will come, hahhaa. perhaps pm's will be the way to go on this todd.

 

we have been conducting tests for some time..not trying to bash what you are doing, but we have taken our time gathering info from our pool of experts before announcing anything, so you can understand our position: we have been "in the works" with this project for several months, we have opted to go with a setup that has been tried and tested many times over, and wait until we have it fully developed before "spilling the beans" ..and you beat us to it but the main difference in our methods is the insert...

again, I hope this works out for you, we felt more comfortable going a different route...we are not in competition with stud kits, as we don't have any interest in selling them, we will install them in out motors in-house. Your idea of a stud kit is great, we went through a TON of hassle to get the correct timesert setup- may I suggest that for added stability, you add these to your kit, shouldn't be that much more expensive...

 

the fact is that there are TWO ways to go about doing this. an engineer would have gone about the same process as i did to test this. my way has passed with flying colors, and passed with a safety margin so huge it cannot be denied. if you guys decide to do it differently, that is perfectly fine. the discrediting of my way, and possibly misinforming other members is completely unneccesary, especially in light of the test results.

the reason for putting these in a kit form is for the simple fact, that this is an easy machining process that can be handled by any competent machine shop. the kit frees up time the customer or machinist would have to spend researching finding the correct stud combo, and install process. i would love to build everyones motor here, but the fact being, someone does not need to send their block across the country to me for such a simple process. the kit form will work out perfectly for people having their motor built locally, and save time in research if 1/2" studs are in the plans.

it would be great if we could work together more on this todd. i think i just found a fix for the opposite axis today now too. that is a HUGE one. that may take a little while to perform though.

 

pm sent

 

It's funny 350zDCalb blew his first 2 so called built motors and now calls himself an expert and setting the standard... Total BS.. Keep up the good work Scott..
brooke

 

We don't need BS like this in this thread. Grow up.

 

again, I don't have to call myself an expert, I am surrounded by the experts in this industry, I have just spent a lot of time and money in being the guinea pig for the vq35...I have gone through a few motors, and many have benefitted greatly from what we learned...so instead of acting like an a$$hole with 48 posts on this forum, sit back and read...don't interject, not needed/appreciated, etc.

good day
This is so pathetic that I have to keep addressing my "attacking" vs simply talking about the topic at hand: helicoils vs timeserts...if we are really trying to have a good discussion here, welcome my criticism...
I will step out of this discussion, I do believe we are trying to HELP each other overzealous, trying to prevent anyone having to rebuild their motors unecessarily...for whatever reason..that has ALWAYS been my motive...if the helicoils work for your test- awesome, I do not feel comfortable with a piece of wire holding in my head studs...again, I spoke with a few other copmany owners int he industry, one of them gave me some interesting feedback; they deal with lots of blocks that have been remanufactured/fixed/"upgraded" for certain customer-requested builds...he stated that the lower end products would have inserts such as helicoils, whereas the top quality blocks were fitted with solid inserts.
SCOTT- I am not sharing this information in hopes of discredited anything you are doing, you are doing a great service for the 350z community, just let's actually work together, consider why all of these poeple have been so adiment for using timeserts vs helicoils...ask around outside your immediate community..I have talked to several people across the country to try to get everybody's feedback..every single person has told me the same thing- so don't shoot the messenger, this is info I have gathered from others.

as far as the extensive testing... how many miles have you tested the helicoils? what boost? most of us who have had head lift problems did not see them until several months after our cars were pushed hard (I didn't have any signs of head lift until 10 months of use and abuse on my motor)

end of my imput, carry on

 

The Truth hurts doesn't it? The facts are the facts here so cut the crap..
brooke

 

I dont see why heli coils are so bad, I have heard of alot of people using them before with out any problems, what do you think is so bad with their design that they would fail??

 

Its not a question of them being bad but there are better choices such as timeserts. While helicoils are fine for some applications I sure would not use them for this one. Just because some people have done it doesn't mean its a good idea.

 

I was told that helicoils are not the best for high heat applications, while the block isn't going to get a s hot as say, the exhaust manifold, it will go through several heat cycles..this is my primary concern.

the helicoil is an actual wire that is coiled:


The timesert is a solid piece of material..here is a cross section of one:

 

OK, I will be the first to ask a stupid question... How does this make the bond between the bolt and the block any stronger...?

I mean if the pressure is great enough to pull/back out the bolt in a normal aluminum block, then won't it do the same with the coil/insert? Since both appears to be screwed in, I would assume a regular bolt, or a coil/insert would all just strip the threading in the block..?

Is there some special bonding process with these coils/inserts that enables it to 'grip' the block better then a threaded bolt?

Thanks for the clarification and the pictures to explain.

--B

 

it really is about time to lay this to rest. honestly, if it has taken your "pool" of "experts" months of testing to figure out how to drill stronger threads in aluminum, your in trouble brother!! either that or you are not telling the entire truth about how long you have been working on this. it took me about 30 minutes and that included the trip to the store. an hour later i was done with the test!

this is funny it is not sinking in yet, but this is the test. this thread was to prove the test. you are trying to make people think this is not going to work and your way is the only possible way to accomplish this goal. i think the prob is that your lack of experience with this type of work or background of how widely used this process is. so your guys say use the time-serts and you are holding onto it like it is words from god. there are thousands of good motor builders across the country, many of which use either method.

it's a potato-patato thing

 

I bet the engineers at Nissan would love you to come work for them, if you can figure things out in 30 miniutes and be so certain they will withstand thousands of heat cycles and miles of abuse in different driving conditions, maybe you are the godsend!

 

The bolts are not backing out. The ARP bolts are getting slightly stretched. That is the reason for using L19 or 1/2". While helicoils will work I wonder what will happen once you get some heat cycles? We didn't see the issue with the upgraded bolts till people started upping the boost and then only after a number of heat cycles. I'd rather have time certs for piece of mind.

 

maybe i should. i would have made the motor stronger to start with, hahhaa.

 

it really makes no difference to me. if someone would feel safer or wants to go the time-sert route, that is not a problem. the studs we use have one of the most common u.s. thread and time-serts are readily available for it. if someone would like to use helicoil, that kit has also been figured out.

heat cycles would not be a broblem with either product. i would still like to see a test done with the time-serts though, just so there is no question. they are very similar in there purpose and structural design (with bolt installed) it would just be nice to have you test it todd, then we would all be sure.

again, both will work, and it doesn't matter to me which way someone wants to go. the time-serts expand on the bolt at the end to holdthem in, just test first to make sure removing the stud will not be a problem. it would be a bi&%ch to pull the head off over the studs.

 

call Sam at GT motorsports... he is one of the "experts" that I am referrign to. they have one of the best operations in the country..they have tested and have been using timeserts for several years... so my testing would not be necessary..it has been done..your idea of 1/2 studs is not revolutionary either..it has also been done..the best insert is now an opinion, but I trust the people that I have talked to over a 2 day test

also, the stud does not fix to the timesert, the timeserts have an installation tool that OPENES the bottom few threads and secures it to the block..the head stud can be threaded in and taken out.

I think your defensive postion is based on the possibility that you ordered a ton of helicoils and now realize maybe you should have waited