hey todd, so you guys now know how i reached such a huge torque number and never hit failure, lol the inserts are larger so you grab alot more block material, i went with a course thread also to deepen the thread grooves. time-certs or heliciol is plenty strong and makes the process pretty darn simple and easy. heliciols can be stacked to create alot more depth also. this is the route i took with the test. the heliciols also create a stop if you don't break off the lowest tang, so you can hit perfect depth each time.

 

the timecerts I would trust..the helicoils will work, but I don't feel confident running really high numbers with these types of inserts...the helicoils are made of a much flimsier coiled metal design, while the timecert is a solid piece, more durable and has a higher heat tolerance I guess the secret is out (I think many of us have been experiementing with different fixes over the past several months- great minds think alike )

 

ya, i was a little skeptical at first with the helicoils. but i think my test proved their worthyness. as mentioned earlier, i was not strong enough to make it fail with a 1/2" breaker bar, and i ain't no weakling, lol. the trick is stacking them. this was a procedure approved straight from helicoil.
both ways should work great. have you had a chance to test the time-serts yet? i heard they can have a tendancy to back out with the bolt. but molly lube should help that.

 

ok, parts are found. having to have this custom made. price is a little bit more, but still cheap. just need to complete a thermal expansion test, and it is ready to go!

 

You're referring to your additional support to keep the heads down (other than larger studs) right? If so, that's awesome cuz from what I remember you said that it would only take a couple hours right? This won't need the engine pulled or machined? Can you shoot me a pm or something cuz my engine should be getting real close to being set in the car, etc. and maybe I can get this new product to add before everything is in and done. Thanks.

 

pm sent

 

Sharif... not sure if you remember, but I am working on having a new engine built. I have the Darton MID sleves installed, everything has been cryo'ed and we are currently in process of finishing machining, porting/polishing before heading for coating.

I already have the ARP main head studs and Cometic gasket combination. My HP goal is 750+ do you think I should be looking into these upgraded ARP 1/2" studs or will the replacement ARP studs be enough? Can anyone do the machining to oversize the bolt holes for the 1/2" studs? or should I try to send it to someone who has done it before. Last thing I want is someone to mess up and weaken the block...

Thanks for the info guys. I have been trying to follow this development for some time since planning my build in December. I will be awaiting news on additional fixes/enhancements mentioned here.
--B

 

Waiting for this solution before I swap my built motor in. I've already got ARP studs in but wanna know i what the new solution is.

 

pm sent

 

Any word when we might be able to get some info on your solution ? .. I'm also curious about your idea and would like to know more about it since I'm thinking of going the 1/2" route in the forseeable future. Its good to see people are trying some new ideas.

-Jon

 

yes parts are being made right now and will be overnighted. will have it by thursday. will need to physically show pics of it to explain how it works. a quick thermal expansion test needs to happen to know the preload torque, then it will be ready to be shipped out.

i didn't mean to try and make this a big production and keep people waiting, but it has taking longer to get the parts rounded up than i thought.

 

SVR.... excdllent work... can't wait to see the results. You are tempting me to rip out my perfectly good built motor...

 

Do you need timeserts to put in the 14mm studs or would it be better just to dril and trap the block itself?

I am pulling my motor out to do the studs and i want to get it done right so i dont have to pull the damn thing out again.

 

don't just drill and tap the block. you will not get the required thread depth and they will pull out very easily. either time-serts, helicoil, or actually welding in the hole and starting from scratch are the only ways.

i am putting together a kit with the studs and everything needed for install that will go for $300. anyone with a mill can then do the operation for ya pretty easily in 2-3 hours. any competent machine shop can do this.

 

Hit me up with the details when you get everything finalized. I might just swap out my ARP studs for this kit while we finalizing the build.
--B

 

Timeserts...NOT helicoils!!!

timeserts cost approx $4 a piece (this is for 1/2"- 14mm may be more expensive, they only make the metric 30mm in length, compared to the standard sizes in 1.5")

we are using one of their kits..and making a custom CNC plate to install the inserts...this is the most crucial part of the install...being able to tap the hole in the block EXACTLY perpendicular!!! anybody that attempt this without having the appropriate tooling to line it up is taking a huge risk..if one of those studs is a few degrees off..this could result in a cracked block!

 

talk to some machine shops...you'll find that they need some custom plates and toling to really do this correctly...unfortunately, you can't just go to joe smoe machine shop and they can perfrom this task with precision

 

Just an FYI, that two local machine shops in Charlotte wanted $600 in labor to do this operation (remember there are 16 holes that need to be done, as well as drilling out the head, your gasket, and the trq plate.

Oversized or upgraded studs are a great option, dont get me wrong...but just understand you'll be looking at about $800 in parts and labor when, when all is said and done.

 

EXACTLY! The cost of the studs is the inexpensive part The labor (when done correctly) is the main expense

 

todd, i have been building cars and motors for about 17 years. built my first 450hp motor at 15.

helicoils has always been an approved method for threading head studs into alum blocks. this is not a new concept and if you do research this is done more often than not.
the helicoil process is exactly the way i did the test that started my thread here. so far, that is the highest torque i have seen anyone be able to put on a head stud in this block so far. not sure why you are still questioning itif you question getting the holes centered, or your machine shop questions this, then they either do not have the right equipment, or don't know how to set the mill up correctly.
drilling these holes in a mill is the same as setting up the bore and hone machine. where the machinist needs to set the block up perfectly level and needs to reset center of bore for each hole. if you cannot line up the bit to drill the hole out on your mill, then you will not be able to do it with a template, hahhaa. maybe i am lucky and the guy i use has an air table on his mill making set up simple once the block is set in level.
not trying an attack here, but there are different ways to achieve the same thing. timeserts expand at the end to lock the insert into the block. i have heard numerous times about the timesrt locking onto the bolt, and harming the threads in the block when you try and unscrew it. moly lube my help this condition as well as threadlocker behind the insert. now i'm not sure the prob you have with helicoils, but if you remember from my original post, i was able to unscrew the stud with my fingers out of the block. that means NOTHING MOVED OR WAS DISTORTED AT ALL!!! even with the 180+lbs i had on the nut.

i know alot more about machining than you may know. have you guys been able to show a test on the timeserts yet? the funniest part about this, is the fact i actually completed this test in the worst conditions with a hand held drill and tapping for the insert by hand, hahhaa. this test was under the worst conditions possible, and it still held higher than i have ever heard before.

just understand, there may be 2 ways to reach the end goal and both ways will work perfectly. mine has been proven, thats the reason for my thread here.