Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

I would have to disagree...We have experienced a spun rod end bearings and the rod held.Here is a picture of Paranormal's rod that had spun the rod end bearing due to lack of oil. You can slearly see that the rod bearing is completely wiped out, unlike the rod bearing from motors one and two..


No, bone stock motors, from the factory..

Well the root cause of failure can be a series of small things leading up to failure or one larger problem that causes failure. One can say, if you run low on oil and spun a rod bearing, the low oil was obviously the cause of the failure,but what caused the low oil? What Im saying is that there is an endless chain of "WHAT IF'S" that one can choose from..Aside from flat out forgetting to add oil to a motor, most engine failures are tricky to pin point exactly..
Neither car to my knowledge displayed any signs of head lift, such as loss of coolant or high coolant temps. In fact the TT car blew up on the second run on the dyno, following a short test drive. Everything we monitored on it appeared normal right up to the point of failure...On the single turbo car, there was a bunch of these kits running around that tended to overboost and came out with a boost spike fix.This car was NOT equiped with the fix at the time, however on the dyno, it did not boost past 8.5 psi on all of our runs,but it was a bit lean up top on the tune..


This is a topic for another discussion, but you are fine unless you are hearing audible ping. Detonation is way more forgiving on a N/A application than a F/I car.

I would say at the very least a set of head studs...


The below picture is a picture of what a spun rod bearing looks like..This was NOT from these two motors..

barthelb

This motor seems to be a tough nut to crack.

Many people say the stock block isn't strong, can't reliably be tuned at 400whp. SOme blow under that, so many things seem to happen but there is no consistency and just a bunch of theories.

I start off by saying I have no clue what causes or prevents it.

I however have 28,600 something Forced Inducted miles at 440whp or more. I went with the APS TT in Jan05. I had 28k when I went FI. I have 56,6xx something miles. I drive it every single day. Why? Because its too much fun and you only live once. Im religious on maintenance and where I get my gas from. I think i have signs of headlift too. Or just really, really, really bad air in the system. Happened this morning. Getting on the freeway. Coolant temp surged then I applied moderate throttle temp falls, car runs normal. Anyhow, I think these are all theories and if all motors are built the same then there is no reason how some of us experience so many miles with no failure (knocks wood). I suspect and some others have, that many engines might have better tolerances and thats the only thing that can be contributed.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

The car then went on the dyno went at 4500rpms. As it blew it made a god aweful sound like a misfire then a big bang! The A/F was 11.8 at the time it blew. The entire thing happened suddenly and in an instant before I could get out of it. The knock sensor we were using showed no knock leading up to the event.Im convinced it was not a tunning related failure, but either an injector stuck opened or the heads lifted.
The stock head studs do not offer superior clamping force over the L17's or L19's and are only TQ'd to 65ft lbs from the factory. It may have been an incident where the two motors were just weak motors. Like I said, after the dozens of TT installs we have done this was the first failure we have ever seen..

fito

Well, in our case, we have built many stock internals engines all in the 400-450. In my car I ran a year on 525hp stock internals with no problem. Now we HAVE had Rc injector stock before (actually 3 injectors). It would be intresting to know timming were these engines runnig, what engine managent?, what fuel? and what exhaust they had.

sq40

iTrader: (4)

I'm a family man that can afford the car "as is" and could 'Splurge' on an FI kit for around $5K, but I simply cannot afford $10-12K without being out of my comfort zone. My Z is my Daily Driver (52K in 24 Months) and between the possiblity of being without it for a couple of months for repairs and the said cost of repairs I just can't chance it that much. If it was a 5-10% chance of the motor going out then I might... Its just a bit too risky financially for me.

I have already modded out one car that was and still is my wifes daily driver and doubled its horsepower. I could have afforded to replace the motor in it.. looking back, I got lucky.

Now if a Simple HG and Stud Kit will dimish the risk considerably it might be worth it..

Nismo350ZRT

iTrader: (4)

Were either of these motors revups? I'm curious if there has ever been a case of a blown revup motor with FI. I know revups have stronger rod bolts but maybe they have tighter tolerances as well.

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Jokestrap blew his rev-up with a greddy tt.

Nismo350ZRT

iTrader: (4)

How aggressive was his tune? Any idea why it blew?

TK2005

Jokestrap also admits to having over-revved the $hit out of it as well.

TK2005

Cuz Joke is a maniac on the streets, much like Gman. Joke was looking for more power the day after he got it back with the stock motor. I believe you can find Joke flying around the streets of Houston on his bike when he isn't flying the Z. Joke was tuned by SGP with E-manage Blue (I beleive) to the tune of 421rwhp (I believe).

Gman2004

iTrader: (8)

Haha! Yes I a maniac. I bet the living **** out of my car.

Here is Jokestrap's blown thread.

https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/156949-blown-05-w-tt-going-for-550whp-now.html

doug

iTrader: (5)

paranormal had a RevUP motor too

paranormal

iTrader: (1)

thats about what i was tuned too on my first motor on aps twin turbo and i drive the **** out of my car also when you do that check your oil more ahh just thinking about it makes me sad..i hope this time i will have a good strong tuned setup.

Nismo350ZRT

iTrader: (4)

I'm not sure if jokestrap and paranormal are good examples since they always drove their cars like they stole it.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

one that bent the rod was a rev up, the one that snapped was not a rev up..The rev up had a reflash for tune and the non rev up had a piggyback Uni-chip.

failsafe306

iTrader: (38)

Paranormal, are you building up again, or what? I thought you were selling everything and looking to go back to stock.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Thank you for asking.

I don't pretend to know more than what I know. I would never come in and tell F/I owners that their car is going to blow. I am sure most F/I guys on stock blocks (and there are quite a few) have a pretty reliable setup and like Taurran have done their homework and understand the risks involved. Am I talking to them? No.

But that doesn't mean I should not do my part to inform the misinformed that installing F/I is risky business. Just because my car does not have F/I does not mean I should not be allowed to post good (truthful) information in the F/I forum. My intention was never to make it sound like F/I on a stock block is UN-reliable.

gatti-man

iTrader: (2)

a built motor isn't all that much more $$ when you consider cost of install at a premier shop. for example SGP quoted me a price of 1800 for TN kit install alone but that install price pretty much stays the same if you throw in a built block so the block only costs 4 to 5k installed as opposed to 6 to 7 doing the turbo then later building the block.

Gary Evans

I think it unlikely that a cylinder could hydolock at high rpm from anything short of ingesting water through the intake tract.
A stuck injector won't do it as the fuel is ejected from the cylinder every other revolution. I've had a 380cc injector stick open on my 4 cylinder 1300cc turbo bike (325cc/cylinder) and even at idle it just resulted in a lot of white smoke.
If the head gasket is leaking it is from extreme pressure within the cylinder which results in combustion gases being forced into the water jacket under boost. While water could leak into the cylinder at rest I can't imagine it happening with the engine running at high rpm.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

I explain to all my customers before hand that anytime you double the output of an engine on stock parts, their is a better than 50% chance something can and will go wrong. There are no fool proof solutions. Now we have installed dozens of TT kits and this being our first failure we witnessed.We have several TT cars that have 10-35,000 miles on their turbo kits thus far problem free.i guess its just hit or miss..