Our theory on stock rod failure...
05-31-2006, 10:17 AM
#61
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
I explain to all my customers before hand that anytime you double the output of an engine on stock parts, their is a better than 50% chance something can and will go wrong. There are no fool proof solutions. Now we have installed dozens of TT kits and this being our first failure we witnessed.We have several TT cars that have 10-35,000 miles on their turbo kits thus far problem free.i guess its just hit or miss..
Absolutely. I never posted up info like this because as mentioned, I don't have real life experience with F/I.
But clearly this is the point I am trying to convey. Go to a good shop, get a good clean install and tune, then hope for the best. But prepare for the worst, because "the worst" could happen to anyone.
05-31-2006, 10:29 AM
#62
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Greensboro,NC
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
are the rods cast? not all cast are the same. could just have been an inconsistancy in the casting of the rods that weakend them and with the added power it was just to much for them...
05-31-2006, 11:32 AM
#63
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Escondido
Posts: 11,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Based on what you posted the Revup car was running a single turbo kit with a reflash for a tune and did not snap the rod. You also mentioned this single turbo kit used 380cc injectors, has an overboost pipe available but not installed, and was running lean. My question is this. The single turbo kit you refer to is not released in any way shop or form for the revup motor and no flash exists for that ECU via the company that produces that kit. So how was this even possible?
Last edited by MIAPLAYA; 05-31-2006 at 11:35 AM.
05-31-2006, 12:18 PM
#64
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Room full of blood
Posts: 2,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for a new car.
MRC, thank you for making me all too painfully aware that there is no safe FI on stock block. Dropping 7500$-9000$ into a motor while having another 6000$-7000$ on standby just in case this motor blows is:
a)Way too expensive.
b)Not cost effective considering other car options on the market.
Time for a new car...
a)Way too expensive.
b)Not cost effective considering other car options on the market.
Time for a new car...
05-31-2006, 01:27 PM
#66
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Roy, WA
Posts: 738
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TIMMAHH
Wow this is one depressing thread. I am having second thoughts about going to Stage 4 now...
05-31-2006, 01:41 PM
#69
Originally Posted by Oleg
MRC, thank you for making me all too painfully aware that there is no safe FI on stock block. Dropping 7500$-9000$ into a motor while having another 6000$-7000$ on standby just in case this motor blows is:
a)Way too expensive.
b)Not cost effective considering other car options on the market.
Time for a new car...
a)Way too expensive.
b)Not cost effective considering other car options on the market.
Time for a new car...
05-31-2006, 01:56 PM
#71
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Based on what you posted the Revup car was running a single turbo kit with a reflash for a tune and did not snap the rod. You also mentioned this single turbo kit used 380cc injectors, has an overboost pipe available but not installed, and was running lean. My question is this. The single turbo kit you refer to is not released in any way shop or form for the revup motor and no flash exists for that ECU via the company that produces that kit. So how was this even possible?
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
one that bent the rod was a rev up, the one that snapped was not a rev up..The rev up had a reflash for tune and the non rev up had a piggyback Uni-chip.
However regardless of the kit on the car or the motor (which the rev up is no stronger than the non rev up anyway) there was rod failure either from Hydrolicing or exceeding the mechanical limits of that particular rod..A massive boost spike would also have done what happened on his car, however, we did not do the install, nor do we know the conditions at the time of failure..I also do not know why he did not have the additional part required with that kit to avoid overboosting,perhaps he bought it online from an inexperienced online store that does not do installs..I can tell you one thing, had he come to my shop in the first place he would have been informed of the additional parts required on the kit, as well as the the fact that the injectors on that kit are way to small and the ecu reflash is a pile o' azz...Had he been running larger injectors with a UTEC that has KNock retard as well as overboost fuel cut, most likely he would not be rebuilding his motor right now..
Last edited by Julian@MRC; 05-31-2006 at 02:04 PM.
05-31-2006, 02:00 PM
#72
Registered User
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems like every time I finally decide to buy a kit and turbo my Z, a thread about blown motors is posted, which consequently spooks me out of making the purchase. I have turbocharged the **** out of Hondas (more than doubling power output on stock blocks) without ever a problem. I am by no means an expert when it comes to FI or motors but I do have some limited experience.
I just find it hard to believe that that much coolant is making its way into the cylinder all at once. I would think there would be some type of precursor symptoms. What happened to the days when detonation was the biggest enemy and blown headgaskets/ white smoke would alert you to problems before they got too expensive? Well, anyway, thanks for posting this MRC. Now, all you vendors get on this and find a solution so I can give you my hard-earned money without feeling bad about it.
I just find it hard to believe that that much coolant is making its way into the cylinder all at once. I would think there would be some type of precursor symptoms. What happened to the days when detonation was the biggest enemy and blown headgaskets/ white smoke would alert you to problems before they got too expensive? Well, anyway, thanks for posting this MRC. Now, all you vendors get on this and find a solution so I can give you my hard-earned money without feeling bad about it.
05-31-2006, 02:06 PM
#73
Banned
Thread Starter
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Spotswood NJ
Posts: 5,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wholey Smokes
It seems like every time I finally decide to buy a kit and turbo my Z, a thread about blown motors is posted, which consequently spooks me out of making the purchase. I have turbocharged the **** out of Hondas (more than doubling power output on stock blocks) without ever a problem. I am by no means an expert when it comes to FI or motors but I do have some limited experience.
I just find it hard to believe that that much coolant is making its way into the cylinder all at once. I would think there would be some type of precursor symptoms. What happened to the days when detonation was the biggest enemy and blown headgaskets/ white smoke would alert you to problems before they got too expensive? Well, anyway, thanks for posting this MRC. Now, all you vendors get on this and find a solution so I can give you my hard-earned money without feeling bad about it.
I just find it hard to believe that that much coolant is making its way into the cylinder all at once. I would think there would be some type of precursor symptoms. What happened to the days when detonation was the biggest enemy and blown headgaskets/ white smoke would alert you to problems before they got too expensive? Well, anyway, thanks for posting this MRC. Now, all you vendors get on this and find a solution so I can give you my hard-earned money without feeling bad about it.
05-31-2006, 02:19 PM
#74
Originally Posted by gatti-man
What car would that be?? Lets say I spend 20k on my car in mods and I paid 26k new for my z. That's 46K, what car sub 60k could compete with the FI z I would now own? none imo. the vette is the only thing that comes to mind and I'd far prefer a custom car to an oem fast ride.
hehe a modded STI or EVO come to mind
yeah I agree with you though except having a warrenty is nice, though still a headache fighting with dealers to fix stuff that isn't your fault that it broke
05-31-2006, 02:19 PM
#75
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TIMMAHH
Wow this is one depressing thread. I am having second thoughts about going to Stage 4 now...
05-31-2006, 02:21 PM
#76
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
I explain to all my customers before hand that anytime you double the output of an engine on stock parts, their is a better than 50% chance something can and will go wrong. There are no fool proof solutions. Now we have installed dozens of TT kits and this being our first failure we witnessed.We have several TT cars that have 10-35,000 miles on their turbo kits thus far problem free.i guess its just hit or miss..
You'd be surprised just how many shops don't give there customers that information. Some shops just wanna sell a turbo kit and collect the money on the install.
05-31-2006, 02:35 PM
#78
Originally Posted by Wholey Smokes
It seems like every time I finally decide to buy a kit and turbo my Z, a thread about blown motors is posted, which consequently spooks me out of making the purchase. I have turbocharged the **** out of Hondas (more than doubling power output on stock blocks) without ever a problem. I am by no means an expert when it comes to FI or motors but I do have some limited experience.
I also had a 92 honda civic with fully built B16A(from Pann Motorsports) that I had turbo(Greddy intercooled) and 100 shot direct port Nitrous back in my ricer days (before the term "ricer" exsisted). The I got my first 93 300zxTT with JWT ECU, HKS catback, and single wet system ZEX kit.
Guess which one I blew the motor in first?
Last edited by Havok_RLS2; 05-31-2006 at 02:39 PM.
05-31-2006, 02:46 PM
#80
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
taurran has it spot on.
The root cause of this is probably not something you'll easily be able to diagnose, nor is it something you can likely prevent. Bottom line is you are introducing boost to a car that was not designed with boost in mind. As such, things can, and do, break. Some cars will be lucky and never experience an issue, others will experience problems. The only surefire way? A motor built by a reputable machine shop, using quality components, and a good tune.
I've seen the same thing happen on nearly every import motor out there that was ever turbo'd or SC'd and not built, and I've gone through it myself on personal cars. Best example is my '99 2.5 RS, which I got new back in '98. Myself and a friend turbo'd our cars, and for whatever reason, were able to run more boost, on a daily basis, with merely piggybacks, where others were blowing motors with standalones and less boost. At the end of the day, you find that cars are like fingerprints in that no 2 are the same. Some get lucky (as I did, eventually being able to run 18-19 psi of boost on a bone stock 2.5 RS with nothing more than a cheesy rising rate fuel pressure regulator, big fuel pump a SAFC and an ITC running things), and others find out that building a motor, while a financial burden, is the only way to truly prevent things from going boom.
The root cause of this is probably not something you'll easily be able to diagnose, nor is it something you can likely prevent. Bottom line is you are introducing boost to a car that was not designed with boost in mind. As such, things can, and do, break. Some cars will be lucky and never experience an issue, others will experience problems. The only surefire way? A motor built by a reputable machine shop, using quality components, and a good tune.
I've seen the same thing happen on nearly every import motor out there that was ever turbo'd or SC'd and not built, and I've gone through it myself on personal cars. Best example is my '99 2.5 RS, which I got new back in '98. Myself and a friend turbo'd our cars, and for whatever reason, were able to run more boost, on a daily basis, with merely piggybacks, where others were blowing motors with standalones and less boost. At the end of the day, you find that cars are like fingerprints in that no 2 are the same. Some get lucky (as I did, eventually being able to run 18-19 psi of boost on a bone stock 2.5 RS with nothing more than a cheesy rising rate fuel pressure regulator, big fuel pump a SAFC and an ITC running things), and others find out that building a motor, while a financial burden, is the only way to truly prevent things from going boom.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 05-31-2006 at 02:51 PM.