We've tune over 100 350Z's, and have yet to have one blow up on the dyno, or in a customer's hands. The risk certainly still exists (accidential overboost, poor fuel sub-system failure), and we counsel our clients to this effect. But a well installed, and well tuned (we dont take the risk with an out of the box tune) FI kit is extremely safe on a stock motor.

Now that I have said this, I am frantically searching for large quantities of wood to knock on.

 

Once again, Helldorado hits the bullseye!

It is hard to explain, and perhaps to sit still and listen to, especially when it comes from someone that already has buckets of FI power. But please take just a few moments and reflect carefully on what Helldorado is saying because it is so true.

This is only my opinion, but having gone through this carefully over three years now with my car.....do the suspension and handling FIRST. And do it in incremental stages to keep the process affordable, and to get the handling performance/comfort and utility balance proper for YOUR personal taste and needs. Only then consider whether it is appropriate to take the car to the next step of additional power.

Why? Several reasons. First, the car already has about 300hp. Gentlemen, that is a LOT of power. It is more power than most cars available, and it is WAY more power than most drivers have the skill to handle effectively when driven even slightly beyond "moderate" as related to its potential. If you take your G to a track in its stock condition and start to drive it hard, the last thing the car needs to have addressed is power. Those 300 NA ponies on the VQ35DE motor and the drive by wire system are ready and willing ro roar for you. But.........The brakes might last three laps. The car will wallow and pitch, understeer and slide, all over the darn place. In truth, you will not be able to use all that power anywhere near to the potential of the car, because it is not set up for it. On the street the car feels tight, crisp and compared to many cars, just fantastic. And it is. For the street. That is what it is made for after all, a street car that gives a bit more "zip" than your father's Oldsmobile. Slapping an FI kit on this car does not make it "better"....it just makes it more powerful. If all you are going to do is go in a straight line for a few seconds, and leave yourself lots of room to stop, and you don't do it three times in rapid succession....ok maybe. But is that what you really want the FI kit for? Is that possibly worth the money investment for the returns?

But, if you work on the suspension, and the driver skills, you don't need FI to drive this car fast, really fast, around the street or the track. Our buddy Dayton is driving his NA G35 around the GrandAm Cup course at Cal Speedway with the Roval at sub 2 minute lap times. With a passenger. He has a special suspension and handling package from VRT. And he is a good driver who has become increasingly familiar with his car and its limits. His times are coming down, and they are going to continue to keep coming down.
He is beating other cars with FI around that track. And on the street, very comfortable and fun daily driver.

And you aren't messing with smog compliance and engine warranty issues.
Sure you can do a few things to bag a few more horses, like with a catback exhaust and your air intake, the plenum spacer and some other little things that are fun and reasonable in cost. No problem. But dropping the big bucks on the FI, or the built motor and the FI if you go all the way, should probably wait until you really know that is what you want on this car. And you are well informed about FI.

What are the things to do with handling etc? The list is HUGE. Worry not, you will have a lot to keep yourself busy with. Try this on for size:
1. Sway (anti roll) bars, front and rear. Probably the first and best bang for the buck handling mod you can consider.
2. Strut tower braces, front and rear. Probably something to do in one of the final stages, just before you go FI.
3. Coilover springs and dampers, including a modest lowering of the ride to drop your center of mass. This is also an earlier rather than later change.
4. Wider rims and tires. And especially, LIGHTER rims and tires. This can go earlier rather than later. You WILL notice the difference immediately. If you are going to track the car...get the power steering cooler at this time.
5. Front adjustable upper control arms, and rear camber adjustable links. This is probably a later change for when you canyon drive or track the car.
6. Bushings. Definitely a later change.
7. Big Brake kit, with larger rotors, braided stainless lines and upgraded RBF. This is probably somewhere in the middle of your mods schedule, unless you are an aggressive driver and know you need it right away.

You will need much of this before you go FI, and ultimately if you are learning to drive faster NA. Remember, the BBK is not going to stop you in an appreciably shorter distance than your stock brake kit. But it will stop you under aggressive and demanding conditions repeatedly when the stock brakes would be overwhelmed with heat. If you drive in a spirited fashion on a canyon run or in the hills, you can overstep the capacity of the stock brakes. And, the brakes do not stop the car....TIRES stop the car....the brakes just stop the wheel from spinning. The TIRES accelerate the car....the engine just spin the wheel. The TIRES turn the car...the steering just tells them how much. There is nothing that may seem as hum drum and boring, yet is as definitive in the ultimate outcome of how a car performs, as the TIRES. It may be like taking bad tasting stomach acid medication, but study up on tires. Does it matter that a Bridgestone weighs three pounds more per tire than a Toyo or Michelin? You bet it does. Does it matter to you for your intended use? Maybe not....but when you consider the additional energy required to spin up or slow down that unsprung mass....
And the same is true for wheels. Great looking is important. But strong and light is critical. There are so many great looking cheap wheels....and they are HEAVY pigs. They ruin performance. There is no reason to buy a heavy wheel, there are lots of outstanding lightweight ones available, some of which are quite expensive, but some of which are actually quite attractively priced. When you see somebody in a nice car with heavy wheels the only conclusion is "stupid". There just is no reason for it with so many handsome offerings in light weights and quality forgings.

Drivetrain changes:
1. Lightweight flywheel and high performance clutch
2. Limited slip differential (redline differential oil and MOC lubricant)

If you are not going to performance drive, if you are not going to go FI, you don't need these two, because while they deliver very significant returns, they are also "bad boys". They have attitude in their impact on the car. The lsd if it is a mechanical type will grab and lurch in a slow turn, and the lightweight flywheel can chatter like a little cement truck when it is at idle, while making starts from a dead stop more prone to stalling the engine. You have to really want and appreciate the benefits of this equipment from a performance perspective to put up with the sensitivity and increased attention they demand. When and if you go FI you will have to change the clutch to hold the increased power...so if you do this before you go FI, make sure you get the unit that will be up to the task you intend to give it.

Forced Induction:
(assuming TT, but a lot of this applies to SC also)
If you are going to just drive it on the street, and not performance drive it, you probably do not need to do much else. But if you are going to do some canyon carving, and by this time with the above mods you are not among the living if you are not, at a minimum you will want to do the following:

1. Upgrade to an aluminum racing radiator (Redline water wetter)
2. Oil Cooler

If you are going to drive it HARD or track it, then there are some more things to consider:
1. Expanded oil capacity and filtration such as bypass filters
2. Crankshaft torsional vibration damping
3. Thermal barrier and thermal dispersant coatings
4. Vented hood
5. Supplemental electric fans

Interior changes to think about would include:
1. Roll bar and harness bar
2. High performance street seats with bolsters and four or five point harness
3. Drilled aluminum pedals configured for heel/toe work
4. Short shifter

Instrumentation:
You really don't need much if you stay NA. Perhaps a better water temp gauge, or an oil temp gauge.
If you go FI, but stay on the streets, you will want a boost gauge and perhaps Air /Fuel ratio in addition to those. But that is about it.

If you go FI and track it, then perhaps you will want oil pressure, exhaust gas temperature, and fuel pressure in addition to the above.

I hope that helps a bit. Others may have some additional things I missed, or have varying ideas on the prioritization, but that is the best I can do on a stream of consciousness type dump, all following the fundamentally good advise of Helldorado, above.

Cheers.

 

This is the most intelligently written and comprehesive post I have seen a long time. It needs its own sticky. Thank you, Ed.

 

One heck of a post, but could you stop hitting me?

Seriously, I've done most of all I can do without adding FI. This is my daily driver. I live hundreds of miles away from the highly-regarded installers and tuners mentioned on this board. I'm satisfied with the NA performance I have now. I would have to think about it even if someone offered me a major build and tune at no charge...

Are there any philanthropic VQ35 geniuses out there who want to make me think more seriously about going FI...?

 

Every thread I come across with the line "F/I or N/A" I start missing my supra.

 

#1 need to get rims and finish the sespention
#2 need to hit the 60k mile mark

 

Sharif beat me to it; we should sticky Eagle's post at the top of all of the modification forums.

 

Eagle's post is so long that I wasn't planning on reading due to lack of time but since Sharif and failsafe think it's a decent post, I'll print it out and read it on the go.

Anyway, I'm still thinking of going FI even though my car is a daily driver and has 2800 miles on it. I have just enough money right now for a kit (Greddy since I have an 06) and some supporting mods. I already have a UTEC and Tuner WB so that's taken care of.

I think I may just wait until I have part of the money for a built motor saved so if it does blow, I won't be hit with as big of a bill all at once. I might just wait until I have money saved for a built motor so I can do it all at once but I don't know if I can wait that long.

This money is burning a hole in my pocket, I've almost spent it on a ton of other mods many times. Almost daily I look at vendor sites and almost hit "checkout" with a $6000 shopping cart.

 

I absolutely agree with Eagle1's and Helldorado's posts as well

FI has been my final stage of mods

I figured it'd be better to address all the other aspects of the car first and wait for there to be more knowledge and better parts available for the engine before getting a FI kit. I'm taking that waiting approach for building an engine as well - wait for everyone to figure it out, wait for more parts to come out, wait for more shops who can do the work, wait for better pricing and more competition, etc until the time comes that you need it or feel enough issues have been solved to feel confident about dropping another chunk of cash

I remember reading 1-2 years ago about everyone with turbos NOT having traction on the street. I remember reading one guy crashing the car into a wall because it fishtailed out of control in an alleyway or something like that.

Of course common sense and being aware how much grip you have goes a long ways, but back then - especially when the APS ST kit first came out and 30 people instantly slapped one onto an otherwise bone stock car with bling 19 inch 245mm cheap tires.

I'd read them brag about their dynosheets and how cool it is to "have so much power" to be able to spin out the tires in the first 3 gears. I read all those posts and thought, damn these guys all have way unbalanced cars - like a dude at the gym who only works out his arms and has tiny thin legs. I mean you do have to start somewhere and a FI kit maybe isn't a bad 1st mod if you have immediate rather than longer term plans to upgrade the tires and LSD.

That and why are people in such a hurry to void their engine warrenty ASAP? Get all the other stuff that won't void out your engine, then after you get that stuff done, you either have just a few months left on your warrenty or it's already expired

 

Leave it to Ed (Eagle1) to spark such wisdom......doesn't surprise me anymore, nothing this man does, or can do surprises ME anymore!

 

Wow, page 2 of the thread and it is not ruined yet or off target. Great to see a thread that is worth looking at and on topic. I remember this forum being like this more often a couple of years back and it is great to see it happen here again.

 

Zland, what was your purpose in starting this thread....hmmmm....is somebody about to take the plunge!?

 

Come on, I have only been waiting 3.5 yrs! I might go for it within a year. Right now I got June-Aug surfing trip plan.

Actually I wanted to see what was on peoples minds actually. A couple of years back a person could say they were waiting for XYZ kit to come out but now, I think all the kits that are going to come out, are.

 

Actually, there is one more kit in the jungle rustling about, trying to find an application, and that is the VRT/JWT 700 BB TT unit. It really is more for a truly ardent track person, only should be put on a built motor, or possibly applied to an offroad or competition platform. It will work on the street.......but holy cow it is a beast. The thing tosses 500rwhp on the wastegate springs....so it does not take a lot of imagination to figure out how much discipline you need to drive it responsibly on the street. So I suspect that it will be very sparingly sold, if at all, to street type users. The only one out there is the VRT prototype on Mike's car. And "yes" I have been out there on the track with him when he was running it at Cal Speedway, and "yes" at WOT down the front straight he walked by me, and "yes" the last time that happened I changed my set up.....but "no" I am not going to put that on my car.

I am not going to do a lot of things that are really neat, and that is only one of them. Parachuting out of perfectly good airplanes, bungee jumping off of bridges over rocky ravines, base jumping off tall buildings, scuba diving in shark infested waters, handling the blue ringed octopus, and getting between Godzilla's legs to check out whether it is male or female are all on the list too.

Which all goes to say.....there probably is a market for it anyway!

 

So from all the reading i've done, the JWT/VRT kit is not really mass produced? And even if you got your hands on their kit you have to go to specific tuners to get it tuned? What ever happen to JWT trying to get it carb cert?

Sorry i havent really been on the whole FI section a lot, I try to stay away from it as much as i can so i wont be tempted to take a plunge. If there is a carb cert Turbo kit im definitly in the market for it. I know it a lot of research and most likely there isnt going to be a carb cert kit but i just want to know is JWT is still pursuing that goal.

 

First you accuse me of beating on bullseye, now you're questioning the admins sexuality. Where does this madness end?



I think the one big thing that Eagle1 started to touch base on is that improving speed through enhanced combustion is just one link in the chain. It is a way of improving speed through brute force almost to the point of being crude.

There's nothing wrong with making more power. But without consideration of how it travels from the engine cylinder to the tires, the subsequent side effects and how you're best going to control it... its probably best left untouched.

Because as Eagle1 has stated, there are so many ways to impove the speed of the car without touching the engine. I know I'm personally spending much time reading and researching. The knowledge quest is almost as rewarding as the benefits of the build itself. Sometimes I just wish I had become an engineer instead of going to art school.

 

the HKS turbo kit isn't out yet

 

It is not mass produced.

They are very selective in who they will sell it to, and at the moment it is only a couple of high caliber installers.

Status on the CARB should be updated by directly asking them. But in the People's Republic of California, who knows? You march to the tune of the State, which does not want high performance cars for a whole bunch of reasons, not to whether the unit is ready and performs.

 

When I mentioned "all the kits are out" basically I think most people know the JWT Kits are on some cars but basically two installers are about the only ones that got their hands on them. So it comes down to if I said it is out, someone will correct me, if I say it is not out, someone else will correct me.

 

Yep. No good deed goes unpunished.
And the good all die young.