KPierson

iTrader: (1)

Ever since I installed my UTEC I've had lots of reported knock. My timing is conservative, my boost is low (9psi max), and my A/Fs are under 12 while under boost. This, along with the fact that most knock occurs when I'm in the 0% load column leads me to believe that its not knock, but that it's valve train noise (I have JWT springs and retainers, and JWT custom ground cam).

I've been slowly backing off my knock sensitivity in the UTEC, but it's getting to the point where I don't think the UTEC will even pick up knock anymore (I'm down to ~50 @5-6K). Has anyone else experianced this?

Also, it seems that most knock actually happens as soon as, or soon after, I lift my foot off the pedal (and the the throttle body is closed). Anyone have any idea why this is happening?

Would I be better off to just ignore this knock and keep my knock sensitivity higher up, or should I keep backing down until I don't see any knock at RPM when no load revving the motor?

I'm using the MPS UTEC logger and it has the most annoying noise that plays each time knock is detected. There is no way to turn the sound down (and still hear my MP3s) and no way to disable it, so it's kind of a big issue (to me).

What is everyone else using for their knock sensitivity?

My motor is:

8.6:1 Arias pistons
Pauter rods
stock crank
JWT cam
JWT springs w/ retainers
APS TT
UTEC

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

great question, i was just about to post the same thing!!!

i am running 18psi, in the 70-80% load site, no knock under boost at all!...i let off and it detects a count of knock...almost everytime...have you logged what rpm it detects the knock? mine is always under vacuum, around 2-3000 rpm...wonder if we should just lower the sensitivity all the way from 2000-3000 and keep it up at higher rpm..too bad it doesnt detect.decipher knock only under boost, i wonder if there is a way to prevent the utec from reading knock when under vacuum....

soemone must have some ideas here??

Sharif? Sam? anyone???

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

every log that i look at, immediately following a run, a count of knock, while under vacuum...what's the deal?


2923 -11.3 2.07 14 00 00 1.78 +40.4 4.2 Ecu. +0.0 2.33
3103 -9.7 2.80 24 00 00 0.72 +32.1 2.1 Ecu. +0.0 3.17
3226 -6.6 3.13 25 00 00 4.20 +30.1 11.3 Ecu. +0.0 3.09
3153 -5.2 3.05 33 00 00 4.54 +35.3 11.7 Ecu. +0.0 3.19
3186 -3.2 3.43 50 00 00 5.76 +26.3 15.0 Ecu. +0.0 3.47
3233 -1.6 3.49 60 00 00 0.80 +28.2 5.5 Ecu. +0.0 3.56
3261 -0.5 3.54 66 00 00 5.88 +25.3 15.7 Ecu. +0.0 3.60
3287 +0.3 3.66 72 00 00 6.25 +23.2 16.7 Ecu. +0.0 3.70
3340 +0.8 3.72 73 10 00 6.43 +21.3 23.1 +19.0 +0.0 3.76
3360 +1.5 3.80 77 10 00 8.87 +20.1 24.8 +18.2 +0.0 3.82
3404 +2.2 3.90 78 10 00 9.12 +17.2 26.3 +17.5 +0.0 3.90
3436 +2.9 3.96 80 20 00 9.44 +16.2 27.2 +16.6 +0.0 3.98
3508 +3.4 4.01 83 20 00 9.70 +16.2 28.2 +15.9 +0.0 4.07
3538 +4.2 4.15 85 20 00 10.00 +15.2 29.5 +15.4 +0.0 4.21
3619 +5.0 4.29 85 30 00 10.34 +13.2 31.0 +14.6 +0.0 4.33
3654 +5.9 4.49 84 30 00 10.82 +13.3 33.2 +13.4 +0.0 4.43
3736 +7.0 4.52 84 40 00 11.30 +13.1 35.3 +12.5 +0.0 4.54
3800 +8.0 4.62 86 40 00 13.61 +13.1 43.6 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
3866 +9.2 4.78 85 40 00 13.75 +13.3 44.5 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
3958 +10.5 4.88 85 50 00 13.93 +14.2 45.9 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
4050 +11.6 4.98 84 60 00 14.41 +13.1 48.4 +11.9 +0.0 4.60
4115 +12.8 5.00 84 60 00 15.35 +14.2 53.0 +11.5 +0.0 4.60
4214 +14.0 5.00 84 70 00 15.99 +12.1 56.5 +11.2 +0.0 4.60
4306 +15.0 5.00 84 70 00 16.79 +11.0 60.6 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4420 +15.6 5.00 80 70 00 17.04 +10.1 63.2 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4535 +16.2 5.00 78 80 00 17.03 +9.6 64.6 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4629 +16.3 5.00 76 80 00 17.10 +11.2 66.1 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4681 +16.0 5.00 55 80 00 17.13 +12.0 66.4 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4859 +5.4 3.39 0 40 00 10.00 +23.2 39.5 +18.5 +0.0 2.90
4468 -7.0 3.00 0 00 00 4.40 +19.1 15.4 Ecu. +0.0 2.98
4177 -10.0 2.25 0 00 01 2.83 +34.2 9.7 Ecu. +0.0 2.64
3903 -10.8 2.54 0 00 00 2.69 +32.4 6.4 Ecu. +0.0 2.21
3584 -11.2 1.84 19 00 00 1.48 +41.1 4.3 Ecu. +0.0 2.21
3516 -6.6 3.72 47 00 00 4.82 +23.0 21.0 Ecu. +0.0 3.80
3576 -1.0 3.78 57 00 00 6.08 +21.3 11.5 Ecu. +0.0 3.76
3642 +0.1 3.82 68 00 00 6.76 +21.2 20.6 Ecu. +0.0 3.94
3658 +2.0 3.98 79 10 00 9.32 +19.2 28.3 +17.5 +0.0 4.00
3679 +2.8 4.05 88 20 00 9.58 +17.3 29.3 +16.4 +0.0 4.15
3707 +3.6 4.27 93 20 00 9.99 +17.1 31.4 +15.2 +0.0 4.29
3757 +4.9 4.35 93 30 00 10.46 +14.2 33.0 +13.9 +0.0 4.39
3809 +6.1 4.49 94 30 00 11.18 +15.3 35.3 +12.7 +0.0 4.52
3844 +7.3 4.54 93 40 00 11.67 +14.2 37.2 +12.3 +0.0 4.60
3862 +8.7 4.74 94 40 00 13.70 +13.2 44.0 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
3898 +9.9 4.80 94 50 00 13.80 +14.1 45.0 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
3982 +11.2 4.94 94 50 00 13.92 +14.2 45.8 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
4045 +12.4 4.94 92 60 00 14.20 +14.1 47.5 +12.0 +0.0 4.60
4079 +13.5 5.00 92 60 00 14.46 +13.2 48.8 +11.9 +0.0 4.60
4105 +14.6 5.00 92 70 00 15.14 +14.2 52.0 +11.6 +0.0 4.60
4198 +15.5 5.00 92 70 00 15.67 +13.0 54.4 +11.4 +0.0 4.60
4290 +16.2 5.00 89 80 00 16.32 +13.1 58.3 +11.1 +0.0 4.60
4312 +16.9 5.00 89 80 00 16.67 +12.2 60.3 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4368 +17.2 5.00 90 80 00 16.73 +11.1 59.9 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4486 +17.4 5.00 89 80 00 16.83 +11.2 61.8 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4474 +17.5 5.00 88 80 00 16.95 +10.0 63.4 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4566 +17.3 5.00 88 80 00 17.15 +10.2 65.4 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4572 +17.4 5.00 89 80 00 17.06 +9.2 65.1 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4655 +17.3 5.00 82 80 00 17.11 +10.9 66.7 +11.0 +0.0 4.60
4728 +15.5 5.00 22 70 00 17.16 +12.0 69.7 +11.0 +0.0 4.41
4701 -2.0 2.74 0 10 00 10.45 +33.1 18.2 Ecu. +0.0 2.82
4391 -8.6 2.21 0 00 00 2.65 +34.1 9.2 Ecu. +0.0 2.17
4187 -10.7 2.94 0 00 01 2.46 +18.3 8.6 Ecu. +0.0 1.94
3954 -11.3 1.96 0 00 00 1.84 +15.1 6.0 Ecu. +0.0 2.27
3654 -11.4 2.62 0 00 00 1.66 +12.3 4.9 Ecu. +0.0 2.45
3397 -11.3 2.29 0 00 00 1.94 +9.3 5.4 Ecu. +0.0 2.27
3112 -11.3 2.23 0 00 00 1.98 +6.4 5.1 Ecu. +0.0 2.39
2891 -11.2 2.19 0 00 00 0.52 -1.7 1.2 Ecu. +0.0 2.09
2630 -11.4 1.82 0 00 00 0.52 -0.6 1.1 Ecu. +0.0 1.64
2375 -11.5 1.72 0 00 00 0.52 -0.6 1.0 Ecu. +0.0 1.72
2143 -11.4 1.47 0 00 00 0.52 -3.5 0.9 Ecu. +0.0 2.05
1915 -11.3 1.88 0 00 00 0.52 -5.1 0.8 Ecu. +0.0 1.80
1680 -10.9 1.82 0 00 00 0.52 -5.2 0.7 Ecu. +0.0 1.84
1449 -10.7 1.70 0 00 00 0.52 -5.1 0.6 Ecu. +0.0 1.76

phunk

iTrader: (21)

yes i noticed the same thing. a couple weeks ago i tuned a Z that i built for a guy (made 515rwhp at 12.5 psi with APS TT and built engine) and the UTEC was doing the same thing. every time i let off the gas it would say it started to knock, and it was always going crazy saying im knocking under full throttle when i knew there was no way that i was knocking yet, as I was still in the middle of adding more timing and making tons more power. i ended up turning off the knock feedback and then i enjoyed the rest of my tuning session in peace.

a few weeks before that i did a procharger Z with the UTEC and i didnt experience any of this claimed knocking, but that was on a stock engine - the TT was a built one. Perhaps the UTEC is just picking up the piston slap of a loose forged motor.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

damn, i feel bad for all the utec problems, i have my sens at 110 100 90 90 80 70, i leave them high on purpose, no knock yet at all with the TT setup. i have it on 3 correlations before it actually retards the timing but has yet to do anything


hopefully you will get it figured out. i am running medium aggressive timing, 14 to 15 peak tq timing with 18-19 redline, no knock yet 13-14 psi (clutch limited)


i was almost wondering if the knock sensor was working with it turned up that high and no knock at all anywhere??

i was also thinking that maybe the darton sleeves holds everything together better somehow with less room for movement??

good luck kevin guys!!

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

0 - 17 psi in 700 rpms!!!!!!! now thats hot!!!!


nice conservative timing there too builtz for sure!!

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

good eye , yah, the boost builds fast!!! Ted at Scott's performance markets this cam as one that will build full boost much earlier and quicker becasue of the extremely small amount of overlap

on a side note:
I got pulled over again last night, 2 nights in a row!!! didn't even do anything wrong, just for a loud muffler, female cops out to prove something (i was pulled over the night before last for exibition of speed--drifting a turn at 70mph--woohooo-- and the cop told me how much he liked my car and let me go!)

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

well, i'm running a darton sleeved block as well, so, i dont think that is it...
now, when ther utec pulls timing...if it detects just one knock event after a run (*and for example, i have mine setup to do something after 4 knock events)...will it pull timing after 4 runs, or do the knock events have to happen within a certain time period?

hmmmmmm?

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

hellyeah!!! drifting at 70 in front of a cop = big *****!!! i love it...


i have had pretty good luck with the Z and not getting pulled over, of course i never really drive it..

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

the knock correllation is what tells it when to retard the timing, it is how ever many you have set consecutive knocks before it retards it


mine is at 3


so three knocks right in a row equals less timing..

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

so then acoording to my logs (and my 4 count knock setting), i shouldnt expereicne any timing retard through my driving cycle, since the knock count is just a single count following a run, not 4 consecutively?

define what the utec determines as consecutively

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

in a row,

00
00
01
01
05
00
00 would retard here if set to three knock count correlations

00
01
00
01
05
00 would not retard if set to three

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

i had never been pulled over until the last 2 nights in a row!?!?!

i didnt see him (of course) and he didnt pull me over for that, it wasnt until i enetered the freeway and 5 minutes later, looped a round and blew by him a second time!!! The first thing he said was "what are the chances you blow by me twice in 5 minutes?"

this cop was so cool, he told me he is a car guy, i explained that i just tuned my car and was making sure it was safe under load conditions on the street (my buddy with my laptop on lap)

the cop continued to say he has never seen more electronics in a car!!! He told me understands that I need to test it and just be careful, ,,, he said the first time he saw me sliding, he thought- woh , thats a nice car...he stated the second time he say me flying he had to pull me over, people would think he wasnt doing his job

and then last night, the female cop who knows nothing about cars, tell me to put my keys on the roof of my car, she accused me of stealing the car (because the dashboard was off, wires exposed)....she gave me a ticket for loud exhaust (which ironically, i'm putting resonators on monday, so proof of that dismisses the ticket) and she gave me a ticket for no proof of insurance- because i left in at the DMV yesterday morning when registering my car!!!
That ticket will be dismissed when i bring a copy of my insurance (of course, i am insured)...she was lookign for things, what a difference between a cool cop and a complete control freak trying to flex her authority

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

thats a great story!!!!

Nismo350ZRT

iTrader: (4)

You should have told her she was the hottest cop you'd ever seen, even if she was butt ugly.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

dude, i swear i said i always wanted to get pulled over by a lady cop so i could flip it and mack to her. just like the ladies do!! it doesnt work like that though, lady cops are always pissed off about something OR....



maybe i didnt pull my shorts up high enough!!

350zDCalb

iTrader: (21)

let's keep this thread alive, come on utec masters, give some feedback

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

not sure what the question is!! but ill keep it alive ...

00
00
00
02
04
03

who's there???!!!!

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

I have the same thing, I think it might be backfire casing it in my case as Im getting a slight backfire on throttle lift off. I would keep the knock sensitivity as high as possible.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

A simple test, if you dont have the Tuner pro with knock listening device:

With the logger running, free rev your engine nearly to redline. See if knock is detected. Since its highly unlikely that your engine will knock with no load, and trace knock counts you see are probably phantoms. Reduce the knock sensitivity unless the trace counts go away.

For what it's worth, I have never seen knock under vaccum conditions.