There is no history between me and APS... I have never worked with them once, or purchased a single item from them. So you dont need to come on here ignorantly implying things, when the only situation that exists is the one that you are fabricating for leverage in your arguement.

You may not be able to say you wouldnt have issues, but I can. Dont ask me why your shop only got what they did out of that fuel pump, cause no one else has troubles running out of fuel at those levels. I think your looking in the wrong places for the problems. Farrrrr too many cars have far surpassed that power with similar setups. If that car had our fuel system on it last time I tuned it, and I was given more then the 30-45min to tune it, the car would be making more power... like the countless others. You seem to forget that we have been selling these systems for a couple years now, and I have enough feedback from enough customers to know exactly what its capable of.

Anyhow, lets get this race setup between us. Cause I am willing to bet that your twin pump all APS car tuned by your favorite shop in the entire world will get its *** smoked by mine. Its your turn to walk the walk, prove me wrong.

 

You use your bias to manipulate a situation that you dont even know about. All that matters with Jeffs car is that the engine I built for him by hand is still one strong bad *** engine. The decisions to attempt to up his horsepower with a cheap fix to his junk APS fuel system was his, as at the time he didnt want to spend the money to buy a proper fuel system. When that decision took its toll on him, he decided to invest proper money into it. Thats that.

As for the info you have found. You have found no info. You dont even know what your talking about in a fuel system conversation. As with every blind promotional post you make, you dont know **** from shinola.

 

phunk, your calling the APS TT/ST supplied fuel system junk is pretty silly don't you think? It was never intended as a standalone fuel system and was designed exclusively for stock blocks. For that application is does an excellent job and is much better than the non-existent fuel systems of other kits out there.

 

No I don't think its silly to call it junk. But after working on cars with exquisite fuel systems, you can't really blame me.

But in that sense, I do agree with you that at least it comes with a fuel system. I agree with its intentions succeding as well. I wont argue with you there. Its still a little ghetto how it hose clamps on and what not, but it certainaly works for up to about 475rwhp on a Dynojet.

 

Said car was running the CJM fuel system and maxed it (injectors most likely) out before even hitting 500 on someone's dynopack dyno, when someone stated it should be easily good for 550.

 

to get back on topic, synth, I would rely on what your tuner tells you. building a motor is basically putting the round peg in the round hole. The tune makes or breaks a setup. Having a setup that the tuner is comfortable and will not limit him will be the ulitimate goal.

 

You have your story a little backwords, so I will clear it up as I have nothing to hide.

He purchased the CJM fuel system to have a more reliable and consistent tune with the HP that he already had. I am refering to the power he had on his APS fuel system that I rigged with a NISMO regulator in attempt to save him some cash, which was 520rwhp on a dynojet.

This setup that we rigged for him proved to be inconsistent, but since he had to pick up the car immediately after preliminary tuning, this was not detected until long after he got the car home. This car was driven from our shop to downtown chicago, and then across states on a vacation and then all the way home. At some point later, I dont know exactly when, it was exhibiting issues related to poor tuning - while no one changed his maps, it was obvious this maxed out fuel system was causing unstable pressure.

SO, he came back for the CJM system to be installed while having his forge actuator diaphrams replaced... and to get a retune to match. The tuner told me personally on the phone that he was making 520 on his dyno where it was maxed out (this dyno SUPPOSEDLY reads lower, but who knows anyway), and then he backed it down on timing because he thought it might be knocking.

I cannot control the tuning of every car, nor can I control what type of dyno it is tested on. What I do know is that there are SEVERAL SEVERAL Z's on this forum far exceeding 500rwhp without using twin pumps. Unless you want to call every tuner on this forum a liar, you have no choice but to accept this.

 

To get back on topic, what day are you coming out here to pick up your car? Unless your not too confident in your decisions and your tuner, surely you should have no problem running me.

 

There are a few holes in the story. when the car showed up at shop X for the tune, the actuators were shot. Supposedly someone had installed them a few times and they were no longer functioning properly.

Yes you rigged the out of box APS fuel system. a fuel system expert like yourself should have known that the FPR is not what is really holding back the out of box system. Throw in a larger set of injectors and you could get a few more HP out of the fuel system (though 150 buck FPR is cheaper than 500-600 buck injector set). now back to the rigging, when the car was at shop X getting the CJM installed, the fuel assembly had a fair amount of plastic weld holding it together, and needed to be replaced as it was leaking and not usable for the CJM system. So your installation included lots of plastic weld?

So now for the tune, reportedly, it left shop X with 480-something whp due to fuel limitations. I heard that you recieved a phone call in regards to the car running out of fuel and you advised him that the system and injectors should be good for 550 - though you talk dynojet #s.

You can say what you want about me, whether I know anything or not, but I am not the one who has a stake in any of this. I am some simple farmer from the great northern state that is a Z enthusiast. I have manufacturers, shops and mechanics I trust. I have the ability to build a motor, install a turbo/twin turbo kit, the same as you. I may very well not be as versed as some when it comes to fuel systems, but I can smell BS a mile away.

My car is not in your hands, and after hearing the feedback on Jim's build, that is a very good thing.

 

Good feedback here..... Anyways, I have plenty of time to do more research before I decide what I want to do. I agree, it's essential to be on the same page as your tuner. Tuan and I started talking about some fuel system options, so I'll see where I want to go in the spring. He's been pretty cool about not pushing one thing over another and has been straight up with his recommendations. All I really want to do is to meet my goal with the most appropriate system...the key word is appropriate. I just do not want to be frivilous with my money and purchase something that is better suited on a TT or "extreme" turbo setup. My engine is built for relaibility, so I wouldn't say that is overkill. However, certain fuel system can easily be overkill on my particular setup especially since a much simpler setup would meet my needs and then some. Not knocking CJ or APS, just trying to be wise on the $$$ in the future.

 

-

 

540whp 560tq on one Walbro with plenty of fuel left. Only limiting factor was the octane rating.

 

To reply to this, are you serious? Are you twelve?

My car is not an attempt to compensate for some short coming I might have.

You car may very well be faster, but my goal was not to have a faster car than some smack talker on the forum. You can check the boards and check when I will be picking it up and you are welcome to stop by and check out the car and meet me in person. If all goes as planned, I won't be there long before heading home

 

The holes in the story are where you come in, and its hilarious/pathetic how you completely make up lies, as you obviously have no true foundation.

First of all, his actuators were installed once - why would anyone put them in more then once?? What a rediculously insignificant accusation. Forge supplied free replacement diaphrams, since the ones in there were torn. Not that it matters, cause its a tiny little rubber part anyway. So I fail to see the tragedy here that you are creating.

As for the fuel system rigging, if it was up to me, It would have had a CJM system on it when I did it. Obviously. However the customer wanted me to try and work around it. Which worked for a little while, but eventually it was a failed idea.

As for the plastic welding, there was no plastic welding at all. On the fitting where his crummy rigged and welded out of pipe APS "bulkhead" fitting was, some epoxy was used to seal the housing, as I did not trust it not to leak. There is nothing wrong with taking extra precautions against fuel leakage. Your tuner made the decision that he had to replace the pump assembly, when I informed him and the owner of the car that a simple -6AN to hose barb adapter would have allowed him to use the existing pump assembly. That was your tuners call to charge him money to replace a 100% perfectly functioning part.

Your project is not in my hands, and thats why its slow.

 

I am very serious. You claim that what is being done out of a single pump is not possible, so I am offering to prove you wrong.

Turn it down all you like, but if you choose to walk the walk - you just let me know.

 

I am not saying it isn't possible. I am saying I am not comfortable running it on my car.

 

You may consider it slow, but I have been informed of the time frame it took you to pump out the 480-something whp monster you did - people in glasses houses best not throw stones

 

how long it took? Why dont you quit making **** up and find out what your talking about. it took me a lot less time then your tuner has been taking.

Honestly I cannot beleive how pathetic it is that you come in here, and completely fabricate lies to try and bash me, just because I think you made a poor decision on your fuel system.

You have left me in a position where I have to defend myself against these lies publicly, and its really damn pathetic that you have stooped to this level. You have completely dropped your original fuel system arguements, because you were in over your head, so you had to resort to immature lies about cars that I have worked on. Every post you make, you drop your previous lie that I proved wrong, and pull out a new one.

Its unfortunate that people such as yourself even exist on these forums, you really set back the progress and and only create problems. I take pride in the work that I have done, and when its done how I want to do it, it comes out perfect. I have built cars that you nor your tuner could even FATHOM, and I have the proof to back it up, so dont try and act like you can one up on me. Until any of you guys can come close to the success building high HP cars that dont blow up that my career has sustained... take a hike farmer, your a joke.

Why dont you grow up, and if your going to accuse me of something, at least find something legitimate.

 

Legitimate? you come here bad mouthing the suggestion I made and counter with vaporware products.

I am informed enough to know that I made the right choice in terms of who is working on my car and the fuel system that is being used. I'll put my faith in the R&D that APS does over that of a guy named 'phunk' on the forums.


I am sorry you feel my shop is taking too long to finish my car.

 

I am beginning to imagine what's going on here, and I'm with Charles on this, but will only comment on the pump issue.

Your assertion that the single pump system is somehow inferior enough that it makes you uncomfortable running it simply doesn't correspond to reality. If GRD told you that that's the case, than they are simply wrong. Wouldn't be the first time a shop, reputable as one MAY be, suggests soemthing that is not based on merit but by how easy it'd be for them to do it, the amount of time they would save in not thinking about a given problem but simply replacing it with something else, or (most importantly) the financial gain they would have from doign so. You need to be more objective and think about the problem first. I have not seen ANYONE max out a single pump walbro system, provided the rest of the system was designed correctly. And if oyu do the math behind it, it will substantiate this claim. And please do not give me the argument of "don't want to operate at pump's full capacity" as i have seen given several times, as this is the reasoning that's easily deduced from what you were saying (that you are not comfortable running it). The pump operates at it's set capacity, period, just more of it's output is directed at to the injectors and not back into the tank via the return system.