Alberto

iTrader: (14)

How do you know how much to add to your almighty 4.2L+ T-trim when this set-up hasnt been done to even give you an idea of what it does?!? Your like a mag racer with no mag, just theory and BS claims

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

I'd argue with you, but you don't know wtf kind of supercharger a vortech is so your statement is dead wrong.

and no, our torque is better throughout the powerband than any centrifugal or even roots setup for the VQ35. Just look at the numbers.............there's proof EVERYWHERE.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Really? So my TN didnt run the same exact times (within 0.01 seconds) on a 90 degree day compared to a 50 degree cool day? Yeah your right, heat only affects turbo's midrange, so much so I have proof to show your full of $hit-where did you ever come up with the midrange idea? All cars lose some power everywhere in the heat....of course some more than others, Roots blower are more prone to heat soak IMO than a TN, Greddy or even a Vortech.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

drive/ride in a turbo car. Then look at how easy it is to get better power out of a turbo car.

Then tell me you'd be perfectly happy with a stock vortech kit and some minor bolt ons.

You won't. You'll want more power. But that will require a new pulley/belt and tune. Maybe more bolt ons. Then you hit a pretty hard ceiling. Turbo kit? Get a boost controller (even MBC for $20), increase the boost, and tune. BAM, more power. No screwing with belts and pullies, and you can put boost back down to wastegate pressure with the flick of a switch or push of a button.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I just do a lot of reading and took some physics and engineering classes in college and read lots of college text books on car design and performance.

I'd like to know what you consider the difference between a BS claim and one that was isn't BS


There's been a lot of "BS" things I've said that have turned out to actually be right, meaning you were wrong. Some of my BS theoretical calculations on gear ratios and rpms come to mind on how you never say you never hit below 5000 rpms when you shift while you're racing even though you have 2 videos online showing that you clearly do drop well below 5000 rpms when you shift@7000 rpms. But maybe you shift at 7500 rpms when you're really racing? i dunno suppose that could be the case.

I don't know you personally, but you're always saying my theories and calculations are lame or a bunch of BS and I'm stupid for even posting any of that crap. I have tons of calculations and text files of useful info, but I usually don't post anything cause there's always someone out there to **** on it saying it's crap so I just spare everyone the drama. Most really good engineers don't ever agree on anything

All I really know about you from your posts is you're in your early 20's and like to go fast down the 1/4 mile blowing engines and breaking transmissions and getting everyone's sympathy for your hardcore racing efforts to prove you have the biggest internet 1/4 mile *****. Of all people, you'd know that not all 1/4 mile tracks elevations, outside temps etc are created equal. I'm not even sure how any 1/4 mile efforts I'd make would even be really compatible with yours if we weren't racing at the same track at the same day.

But it's like this on every forum,
the lotus forums have people who bash anything that isn't less than 2000 lbs
the LS1 forums have people who will bash anything that isn't big displacement V8
The EVO/STI forums have people who bash anything that isn't AWD
ferrari/lambo forums have people who bash anything that isn't expensive or exclusive
civic/celica/intregra sites have people who bash anything that's more expensive than their cars
this site has people like you who bash anything that doesn't have huge peak tq


Alberto, you and I are as far opposite with everything as it gets on this site...let's leave it at that. I said my opinion, you said yours. You have a fast car, you shouldn't be worried about anything I do to mine.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Im not worried about what you do your car I could give a *** less, if your happy thats all that matters. I just dont think many who want S/C "safety" with turbo performance as you like to think you have want to spend $1000+on cams, $$$$ on a FD, then add expensive labor to that high price. At the end of the day you do have a good performing Vortech, no doubt, but it took you $2500+ to get it to that level, thats something you dont mention in these "informative" threads, why not be honest and bring that up all the time? You know what, we'll stop here, as you keep getting personal (as my drag interest and age has NOTHING to do with this thread) for no reason you just get frustrated when you have no proof of claims. Have fun with your calculations and textfiles, they contribute nothing.

BTW-peak TQ is not my main argument here, if thats what I was about Id be driving an LS1 powered(DOMESTIC) car, that AZ heat is getting to your head....

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

if we all wanted to go fast and be cheap, we'd all be running nitrous

If we all wanted to run 10's in the 1/4 mile or be highway gods, there's cheaper and faster cars out there.

Like you were saying, SOMETHING made you want to buy a more expensive Z instead of a much cheaper LS1 car. The reasons you chose to buy a Z are probably the same I chose to get the mods I did - they were the new thing at the time and you just wanted it and were willing to pay extra for it. I do try to make a point to point out to people that if I were to do it all over again from scratch I'd probably just get an APS TT, exhaust, manifold and be done with it.

I'm still amazed at how expensive all this car crap is - for anything with these cars. But either way, when you compare the Z's thrill factor and looks to $100k+ porsche's, it's still a bargain. And I do actually like having a unique car even if it isn't the strongest.

btw, sorry for getting a little personal, yeah your age and your blown engine/tranny has nothing to do with anything, but we're all human and get irritated at times

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

No worries, I know you dont like me, thats fine, I do enjoy having good discussions though, and people that reads both sides can make up their own informed decisions. At the end of the day boost is fun, and my motor blew and yours hasnt

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

hehe, eh I think I'd like you just fine in person really though - honestly. We just rub each other the wrong way on the forums sometimes is all. I really do like reading your posts normally though when we're not at each other's throats and I do learn things from you It's probably true though that others will get a very sharp point/counter point from us on FI

And we all know it's anyone's luck of the draw with who's engine blows up and if they got a bad tranny that doesn't last as long as others

617G

iTrader: (6)

Although I never intended for this to become a "war," I think both sentry and alberto have interesting points. I, for one, went vortech because I honestly thought it would be enough for me. Unfortunately, like many before me, I have realized it is not. Although, I must admit I do like the linear powerband. Like you said, Alberto, diff strokes for diff folks. I was already thinking about ditching the vortech for a ST, turbonetics stage 2 perhaps, but like Sentry, I'd like to be different so I may build up my csc and see what it can really do. Although a stroker kit is out of my budget and I think I'd be happy with ~500whp, I am curious to see if I can get there. True, to up the boost on a csc is more expensive, but we have seen that the csc DOES have upgrades, unlike the TN, which not until now is pretty much capped off at around 450whp. I think TT is a different animal and I am not discussing TT in this thread, but more ST vs CSC. Both sides have made valid arguments, and I chose the CSC for many reasons and although I've already had my doubts from time to time, I am happy with my decision and >500whp actually scares me, lol.

dlt1cy

I have had a few mid 1.9s on my 285s pilot sports with an my vortech at5. Actually, MT ET Street radials haven't been much better. I think I can get some high 1.8s on a good day though.

(but I am not choosing sides, because I agree with certain pieces of both)

RBlover69

iTrader: (2)

if there was a whipple solution for our cars it would stand a way better chance of mimicking a turbos numbers peak wise then any other SC soution. But bottom line. U turbo Zs ...its a step of progression that everyone takes everntually when u want to unleash a Z whatever year, noone really talks about SC especially in japan or even with the heritage of the Z. Yea hks realeased a SC but i mean did that take off no. Turbo for the Z has proven it self to be the ultimate power add-on bar none. Of course theres nitrous but , for constant power and the amazing thrill factor nothing beats a TT Z seeing a FMIC from the rear view of a competers eyes and in a couple of shifts them hearing ur bOV asking u at the light...damn your turbo or what do u have underneath that man. Best quote ever for me was at a meet where a dude with a modded STI said ( i see a FMIC on a Z i know the deal lol) TTz are eventually in my opinion gonna have the populartiy of supras . And its already getting there as more and more Zs get out there and Vqs become boost hungry.

GfortheCPE

Ive heard some people make the claim that a vortech isn't really safier for the engine because it is always putting a strain on it unlike a turbo, and also a vortech has to make more peak power due to parasitic lose to equal the power of the ST at the rear wheels.

So is the vortech any safier than the TN at 350rwhp?

I would guess it is because the vortech doesn't have the sudden spike in torque the ST does, but im a computer engineer not a mechanical engineer so what do I know...

617G

iTrader: (6)

No offense, but if this is your argument, then you have no idea what you're talking about. All superchargers aside from stillen stage 1 have a FMIC, and all centrifugal superchargers have a bloff off valve. I just changed mine out to a Greddy type RS. Therefore, your argument is null.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

for reference, 510whp has been achieved with a vortech
http://g35driver.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=dsport

he doesn't have his engine stroked or bored. He's going the route of trying to see if he can get the vortech to rev to 8000 rpms. I hope he succeeds, but it's going to be a challenge as he's found out with belts breaking. He's working directly with vortech on belt setups.

so 510whp on a T-trim blower at around 7200rpms.....I still think 550whp or even upper 500's is completely possible if you had a 21.7% bigger engine with the GTM stroker kit. I really don't think 550whp is too far out of line. Yes it's true stroker kit is untested, bla bla bla, but from all my BS research the whole "there's no replacement for displacement" saying actually holds some truth as far as performance


none of my arguements were ever anything about the vortech being the ultimate kit for big power cause it obviously isn't - it'll be more expensive to make big power with it than a bolt on TT kit. But I think it's possible for cars with vortechs to hold their own if people wanted to spend money on other things to help the car go fast. The stock vortech kit is pretty tame - much tamer than where the ST kits come stock, but it has several options for making more boost with the 3.12, 2.87, 2.62 pullies, changing cog pullies, changing to S-trim blower, changing to T-trim blower, etc

Another thing to think of is Alberto (since he's a good 1/4 mile driver) ran a 13.13 @ 107 Bolt-ons when he was NA. He can correct me, but I believe he had test pipes, exhaust, plenum, intake, UR pulley, clutch, on MT streets when he ran that. I can only imagine him running high 12's if he had headers and cams. If you then added 120 whp and 85 tq with an aggressive vortech 2.87 pulley setup, surely low 12's would be possible wouldn't you think? that's not too far from reaching even his 11.98 @ 116 Turbonetics time

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Interesting discussion guys, please keep it civil

err... at least no namecalling etc...

RBlover69

iTrader: (2)

WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT , honestly i have no arguments its my opinion as far as SCs are concerned no SCs have impressed me besides whipple SCs. Of course noone here neither the manufacteres have designed a whipple for the VQ so it holds no weight but u trying to entertain my statement as a argument is rediculous . Stop defending yourself and just relax. I read all of the posts here and the only person that really has made sense to me from my understandings was alberto. I can careless about Scs as far as the vq is concerned because it has been known ever since greddy kits etc were first made that big power is gonna be crownd to TTs. Bar none. Thats all . thats fact .

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I was on a stock 57K mile clutch, first time out on ET streets when I ran those times in my sig-weak sauce launches 1.9 60ft's. I was so scared of breaking an axle at that point with the car I launched pretty conservatively. Yes a S/C could easily go low 12's or 11's with decent power anda good driver/track....an auto Procharged Z has gone 12.3 @ 113mph here in MD with a 1.960ft-but IMO Procharger's are faster down the track than Vortech's but dont take that as a Vortech bash.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

wow, that's even more impressive than what I was thinking if it was on a stock clutch and one of your weaker launches



yeah I also think the procharger is more potent than the vortech.

But I also think the vortech is a more solid platform for getting bigger power out of

Though I'm sure someone can figure out a way to reinforce the procharger bracket and not have belts snap driving up to the regular 6600 rpm redline

freezeg35

iTrader: (3)

hey andy, looks like your getting the more power itch just like i did. Have you installed the 3.12 pulley on my old vortech yet?

Once i get my turbonetics kit installed in the spring i will give you my opinion on the difference between the two kits. As for now i sure miss my vortech, it sucks going back to n/a after f/i. I find im driving my wifes new srt8 charger all the time now to keep my torque addiction in check, these cars rip.

There was a video a while back that had tt st and vortech cars racing along with other domestics and the one z labled 60-1 that raced the vortech pulled on it pretty good. That said im not sure what the mods for either car were.