Called TN about Stage II
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Since you are so confident in the abilities of the APS and Greddy 20G compressor to flow enough air for 1000 WHP please show me the data to back it up. I can tell you right now you won't be able to. The APS Extreme turbos and 20Gs can't produce that much airflow. At best the SFR turbos (which are 60-1 compressor BTW) could flow for about 58 lb/min each. Thats 116 lb/min combined flow. Roughly 1160 CRANK HP. Take away drive train loss and you are right at or slightly below 1000 WHEEL HP. Go look up a 20G compressor chart or the charts for the APS extreme turbos. The most flow you'll see from those is 40 lb/min each. And thats keeping the discussion to the compressors. The TD06 turbine section isn't going to support much more then 900-1000 HP either. With the Greddy manifolds you have no choice as thats the largest turbine that will fit on there. The APS turbine sections won't support it period.
Theres a reason why most of the REALLY high HP cars out there run single turbos. Reference the Injected car and its potential. I'm not saying you CAN'T make that kind of power with a twin turbo setup. You absolutely can. But not with the packaging/manifold constraints of this car.
Theres a reason why most of the REALLY high HP cars out there run single turbos. Reference the Injected car and its potential. I'm not saying you CAN'T make that kind of power with a twin turbo setup. You absolutely can. But not with the packaging/manifold constraints of this car.
BUT the only thing that I want to add to this is that in a real-life scenario of building a fully-functional, purpose built 1000whp car, pretty much everything will go under the knife, so the packaging/manifold constraints of a stock car would not be that much of an issue, so the fitment argument may not be too relevant.
But then again, I cannot think of any 1000whp application that will not be in high RPM throughout the whole race, so powerband really does not matter, at least not as much as peak, so you could very well be correct on this issue.
BTW, the Performance Motorsports Z, is it using a single or a twin setup?
Originally Posted by Oleg
I agree with you.
BUT the only thing that I want to add to this is that in a real-life scenario of building a fully-functional, purpose built 1000whp car, pretty much everything will go under the knife, so the packaging/manifold constraints of a stock car would not be that much of an issue, so the fitment argument may not be too relevant.
But then again, I cannot think of any 1000whp application that will not be in high RPM throughout the whole race, so powerband really does not matter, at least not as much as peak, so you could very well be correct on this issue.
BTW, the Performance Motorsports Z, is it using a single or a twin setup?
BUT the only thing that I want to add to this is that in a real-life scenario of building a fully-functional, purpose built 1000whp car, pretty much everything will go under the knife, so the packaging/manifold constraints of a stock car would not be that much of an issue, so the fitment argument may not be too relevant.
But then again, I cannot think of any 1000whp application that will not be in high RPM throughout the whole race, so powerband really does not matter, at least not as much as peak, so you could very well be correct on this issue.
BTW, the Performance Motorsports Z, is it using a single or a twin setup?
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
It was using twin Turbonetics turbos when it set the record. I think its absolutely feasible to do a 1000 WHP street car without serious chassis work... but it would be easier with a single turbo IMHO.
A huge-*** single would hit full boost by definately over 5K, if not 6K, feel free to correct me there. The drag supras and skylines redline over 9-10K. I don't belive that anyone has gone above 8000 on the VQ so far.
Maybe if you'd be able to built the VQ up to revving to 9K and still making power, then the huge single would be the best way to go.
Of course at this point we are talking drag cars.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
I'm not saying you CAN'T make that kind of power with a twin turbo setup. You absolutely can. But not with the packaging/manifold constraints of this car.
Doesnt the same go for singles as well even more so? Im not taking sides, as i asked my original question in the interest of learning as im no turbo guru as some here. But from what ive read/searched the piping for a single limits you way more than twins. It doesnt matter what turbo you stuff under the hood, s you will be limited. I know about the high HP singles out there, but arent they all non-Zs? Its all good but my interest is in the car i own which is a Z. Im really asking my comments to learn and i dont want this to get locked like 99% of these threads do.. I really think that alot can be learned and probably solved if people hear eachother out instead of going crazy with it.
1000hp is a lot of hp and in relation to these forums I doubt it matters a whole lot because not many people on here are searching for that kind of power out of their cars. I guess it would be nice for a shop to say that they made this amount of power just to show/prove/provide confidence in their customers that they know the ins and outs of the VQ though. If I swap the motor or not I will probably be using a single turbo although a lot of it will be for show, I know the way I drive and not much time is spent in low RPMs. I like highway runs, some drag, and some track days. I think that for the money a single will give me the power I need as well as ease later upgrades.
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
i am sure if you can drop it to drop in the 4500 rpm range then its more feasable to do it...
Originally Posted by Oleg
I'm sorry, but I didn't understand. Can you re-word?
sorry..i guess you meant that on supras those big turbos hit full boot around 5,000 rpms... if that can be worked on to go to 4500 rpms on the Z then it would be more easier to do it since ..most comonly ...with head work we are at 8000rpms as you mentioned ?
Originally Posted by IslandZavage
Doesnt the same go for singles as well even more so? Im not taking sides, as i asked my original question in the interest of learning as im no turbo guru as some here. But from what ive read/searched the piping for a single limits you way more than twins. It doesnt matter what turbo you stuff under the hood, s you will be limited. I know about the high HP singles out there, but arent they all non-Zs? Its all good but my interest is in the car i own which is a Z. Im really asking my comments to learn and i dont want this to get locked like 99% of these threads do.. I really think that alot can be learned and probably solved if people hear eachother out instead of going crazy with it.
Originally Posted by widebody350
1000hp is a lot of hp and in relation to these forums I doubt it matters a whole lot because not many people on here are searching for that kind of power out of their cars. I guess it would be nice for a shop to say that they made this amount of power just to show/prove/provide confidence in their customers that they know the ins and outs of the VQ though. If I swap the motor or not I will probably be using a single turbo although a lot of it will be for show, I know the way I drive and not much time is spent in low RPMs. I like highway runs, some drag, and some track days. I think that for the money a single will give me the power I need as well as ease later upgrades.
obviously 1000 hp was not going to be common, but at some point supras, skylines were not in that range either..... sooner than later we should start seeing Zs hitting that mark more often or closer
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; Jan 17, 2007 at 02:13 PM.
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
sorry..i guess you meant that on supras those big turbos hit full boot around 5,000 rpms... if that can be worked on to go to 4500 rpms on the Z then it would be more easier to do it since ..most comonly ...with head work we are at 8000rpms as you mentioned ?
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
obviously 1000 hp was not going to be common, but at some point supras, skylines were not in that range either..... sooner than later we should start seeing Zs hitting that mark more often or closer
i love when MIA posts... he sounds like a researcher.. they aim their tests and results to suit them.. everything you have said about twins is the same exact thing about single turbo's... the fact is.. i don't care what fantasy turbo you come out with.. it will never out perform a twin setup.. even your new stage 2 kit will be out performed with the stock 18G Greddy Turbo's..
Originally Posted by doug
i love when MIA posts... he sounds like a researcher.. they aim their tests and results to suit them.. everything you have said about twins is the same exact thing about single turbo's... the fact is.. i don't care what fantasy turbo you come out with.. it will never out perform a twin setup.. even your new stage 2 kit will be out performed with the stock 18G Greddy Turbo's..
come on doug dont be such a hater and bias like that, you act like "i got the shizzel bezzel best turbo in the werld" attitude.... i think everybody realizes the power of tiwn turbos, but heck other platforms in other cars have been highly successfull with single turbos, no reason why with a lil more years in reserach the VQ can be there
So, what are the characteristics of this Stage 2 supposed to be. Its been stated it should be in the 500-600hp range...my only worry is, how will the powerband be? Will it compare to the TT's, or even the stage 1 turbo as far as boost threshold, spool, and response?
My concern is HP/TQ #'s...its more about powerband to me.
My concern is HP/TQ #'s...its more about powerband to me.
Originally Posted by dank311
my only worry is, how will the powerband be? Will it compare to the TT's, or even the stage 1 turbo as far as boost threshold, spool, and response?
And I am willing to bet that it will cost as much as a TT system capable of supporting 500-600whp.