True, but finding a really good experienced tuner is also difficult to find...regardless of platform. Motec, AEM, FCON, etc..etc.

But you do have a valid point. Fortunately, once an FCON is properly calibrated, it should never need to be retuned.

 

IntenseMotorsports is also HKS certified.

 

My problem is that there is no tuner in the Colorado area (that I know of) for the FCON, and the high altitude (6000-7000 ft) where I live really requires a different tune than something at or near sea level. So, I can't really go somewhere else. The best tuner in the area (MAC Autosports) does an outstanding job with the UTCE, but as I have found out, the UTEC, while great, does not offer quite the resolution of the FCON

Dave

 

I think it is good that there are only certified tuners that can touch the V-pro. You know your getting the job done right and by someone respectable.

Disclaimer: I am not bashing anyone here.

 

Even if you add more mods later? A few people seem to do a boost setup with FCON, then build later, and or change something later. Im assuming you would have to get retuned to take advantage of added mods?

 

i dont know where is ca you are but in so cal alone there are like 5 HKS pro dealers.
GTM being the best IMO.

 

I did not mean for me....or here in SoCal in particular. It is just something that has bothered me that there are not more. What if I move to somewhere that does not have a tuner??? As for GTM, I am sure they do great work, but I got a quote from them way back when and they were twice as expensive as some other places....just my $.02.

I am sure the FCON is great, but for the majority of people they will never need that much sophistication......

 

One man's opinion, and that's it. Unfortunately, it's plain wrong. It's not a matter of sophistication for the sake of sophistication. It's all about stability and consistency. Think about it, our cars in NA form are driven by a very sophisticated ECU (the stock ECU). Going from that to a piggyback or a low-resolution standalone doesn't make sense when you increase the design complexity of the engine (by FI'ing it) many, many fold, which DEMANDS (and not just prefers) an engine management solution (which, after all, drives the damn engine) that is up to par. Believe it or not, even the Fcon pales in comparison to OE ECUs that are used on OE FI'd cars (STI's, Evo's), which have engines not nearly as hard-working as ours. But the Fcon represents one of the best aftermarket solutions that are available. All am I saying is that engine management cannot be viewed as just a "tool," (the way, for example, VRT refers to it) but an essential device that is paramount to optimal (high-HP) and reliable (no detonation, longevity) engine operation.

 

I understand what you are saying, but look at the track record of "for example VRT." They have not blown any engines to date, to my knowledge and my car runs perfectly same as it has since I picked it up from them.

Believe me, I do understand the importance of the engine management. Are there people on here that have blown engines with the FCON? If the car is tuned properly using any engine mangement, it is my understanding that the car and engine will be fine.

You know your what you said above is the problem with so many people today. You are right it is my opinion and for all I care what you have to say is your opinion. No need to be an ***......I will believe that mine and VRT's opinion is wrong when their stuff starts detonating and blowing up.

I have said this in the past, you think I am dead wrong and that is fine cause I could care less what you think. But think about this in regards to what VRT does, it has worked, it continues to work, and there have been no major problems with what they do.....so it is wrong how they think???? Not sure how you come to that conclusion, but there have been so many people that were told what they were doing was wrong and would not work......but if they had listened we would not be driving cars today and flying....so think about that when you tell someone they are dead wrong. You are no one to tell anyone that, nor am I...so I will leave it at this, I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK!

 

VRT made their point pretty well in that other thread. I'm not arguing in favor of the SS box now, just hear me out...

I know the FCON has a number of advantages over other less expensive ECUs. I'm just not that sure it's worth the expense. Say I'm taking it to tune w/ Sharif either way. Sharif knows one bank runs leaner than the other and that the rear cylinders run leaner than the front two. If he's tuning with a UTEC, he doesn't have cylinder control, so he's going to tune to the worst case scenario or lowest common denominator etc. He's got more flexibility w/ the FCON, but it might just mean an extra .5 mpg or a slightly smoother engine at transition points or whatever... He's still going to tune it as safely as he can.

In the end, the FCON may end up being no more reliable in the hands of an experienced tuner than any other ECU (within reason). I guess in the end the tuner compensates for the deficiencies in any ECU. So you can pay $3k or $1k - in the end I think in the right hands for our cars you can have equal reliability.

Hope that makes sense to some people.

 

Likewise....

Let me just say the following, without making this a thread about VRT. First of all, I know that Jim Wolf tunes at least some of the VRT cars..I may be wrong on the exact percentage though, but I have heard from more than one reputable source that he does ALL of them, reagrdless... point being is that VRT cannot give any credible advice on tuning. That's all I am gonna say here about this, although there is much more to say.

People underestimate tuning... and when you say people didn't have "major" problems, what the hell does that mean. You can tune a crappy SS box to run so rich and with such a high margin wrt to timing advance that yes, it will be safe for some time. I am talking of a much higher standard here... to get as close as possible to OEM-level management to preserve not only the engine itself but achieve the objective of a truly superior state of tune, which equals superior drivability and the most power one can ever get out of an engine safely AT THE SAME TIME. These two latter properties (bolded) are ALWAYS mutually exclusive with anything subpar.

As far as the right tuner being key, absolutely. Good EM will not matter in the hands of a bad tuner.

 

Cant say for sure . But from Ive been told by some one at VRT , most of the tune is flashed on the stock ECU .

 

I am ditching this crappy SS Box SOON!

just waiting for a quote from GTM for new engine management and a tune. I just wish they were closer.

 

not liking the vrt tune ? every one raves about how good thier car runs when they get it back with the JWT TT and the vrt touch .

 

no comments on VRT

The tune was great from JIM WOLF. The only problem is it needs a retune since coming back from Virginia and I would rather go with a different EMS at this point.

 

your not the first one to say little on VRT.

wonder whats up with that ?

 

I mean don't get me wrong. I love my engine and JWT TT's they work great and the work was done very well by Mark their mechanic. The customer service after the fact is what I have a problem with. (ok, I made a comment)

 

from what it apears is that the VRT motors are extremely over built so no matter how they are tuned they wont blow.

just imagine how they would be with a proper ems(fcon) and a proper tune.

 

+1, specially if your living in Saudi Arabia.

 

I rest my case...or rather, case in point (at the very least).