Well, JWT TT
06-06-2007, 07:48 AM
#21
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I had the same feeling....like i could have put $XXXXXX in th ebank and been happy...the car was good enuff stock....but for all in all...the second u destroy some rubber with that beast you will not want to park it at night!!!
Good luck dude and enjoy....
Good luck dude and enjoy....
06-06-2007, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by fklentz
Dropping My roadster off at VRT this friday. Having the VRT built engine with JWT TT kit I purchased from Creaminz installed. Please tell me that sick to my stomach jitterry WTF did I do feeling will go away after I drive it. This car is costing me a fortune. Can't wait to find out...
Best of luck to you.
06-06-2007, 03:43 PM
#26
I'm sure some people have a reason to have issues with VRT and they may be for a valid reason, I don't know. I have never dealt with them and feel confident that they can do the install. The engine has 14K miles on it already so I'm sure that if there was a problem we would already know it.
As for the engine managment issues, the install will have the JWT EMS that comes with the kit. When the car get's tuned it will not be done for every last bit of power that it's capable of, this car will never see a track. After I drive it a few months I plan on having a FCON V PRO installed and have it retuned, again not for monster power.
I have a 75 mile commute to work each way and this is my way of "Enjoying the Ride". Except for merging onto the freeway I may never even get it into boost with the exception of a few weekend rides to the mountains or trips to vegas. I guess it's just knowing that it's there if I want it.
As for the engine managment issues, the install will have the JWT EMS that comes with the kit. When the car get's tuned it will not be done for every last bit of power that it's capable of, this car will never see a track. After I drive it a few months I plan on having a FCON V PRO installed and have it retuned, again not for monster power.
I have a 75 mile commute to work each way and this is my way of "Enjoying the Ride". Except for merging onto the freeway I may never even get it into boost with the exception of a few weekend rides to the mountains or trips to vegas. I guess it's just knowing that it's there if I want it.
06-06-2007, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fklentz
I'm sure some people have a reason to have issues with VRT and they may be for a valid reason, I don't know. I have never dealt with them and feel confident that they can do the install. The engine has 14K miles on it already so I'm sure that if there was a problem we would already know it.
https://my350z.com/forum/questionable-posts/276904-gt-motorsports-jwt-bb700-f-con-vpro-aps-extreme-fuel-system.html
06-06-2007, 06:54 PM
#28
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Never had much problem dealing with VRT. I get a call from them once awhile to see if my ride running good, I thought that was pretty cool for VRT to care about my ride even after I left the shop. I'm not saying they are the best in business(could be), but they don't seem to be so horrible like many members on this board thinks.
fklentz,
Did you get my PM?
fklentz,
Did you get my PM?
06-07-2007, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by creaminz
Never had much problem dealing with VRT. I get a call from them once awhile to see if my ride running good, I thought that was pretty cool for VRT to care about my ride even after I left the shop. I'm not saying they are the best in business(could be), but they don't seem to be so horrible like many members on this board thinks.
06-10-2007, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
Great customer service does not make up for shotty work. I don't have any experience with VRT, but if I would have recieved a tune like the one in the thread I posted I'd be pretty pissed off. I am sure that car ran fine, but that doesn't mean it was done right.
First and foremost Tom (Client)
1. Was running on 220 WHP. First time driving 500 WHP in a Roadster.
We are talking about THE FIRST 1000 miles of a newly built motor.
Been doing this a longtime so I don't hesitate to make the initial tune RICH (Safer) than pushing the limit on a breakin...
2. Tell me that is a huge change. With a client never driven FI and now has 500 WHP I think there is OK justification to keep the car a little slower with (less Torque) within breakin.
3. I knew the tune was rich and wouldn't hesitate to do this again if I knew he was bringing the car back within weeks for changes.
I clearly told Tom I can easily get 80-100 FT/lbs of torque by a retune and taking fuel out...If you doubt me, ask him if we had this conversation...
4. He said the tune was fine for now and he would bring the car back within a few weeks so we could put a a True TT exhaust or custom 3 Inch...
THESE ARE FACTS...
5. I also told him the Kintx Plenum is costing him power. The stock would work better or we could develop him a custom plenum like RipDrifts///
It is funny how the client has no beef, yet you folks take ONLY some of the facts and run with the **** talking.
Look, Sam at GTM did a great job. Won't take anything from them,,,And very happy Tom is happy.
Whether you folks know it or not, Tom (ROADSTER) and I are great friends and talk almost daily...
If we would have seen the car again...Plenum change, new exhaust, and a RETUNE (That i was going to do "within two weeks" when the car was fully broken in), the results would improve. For sure...
These are Tom's OWN words...His choice to go to GTM to change the Plenem and Exhaust...
Originally Posted by THE ROADSTER
"Hi guys, like I said before VRT is 4 hrs round trip and GTM is .5 hour round trip. "
"please no drama here or talk bad about VTR. I wanted the F-Con and VRT is 2 hours away and not an approved installer. I din't want to drive for 2 hours to get little things done by VRT, on the other hand GTM is only 15 minus away. I found GTM after finding this forum 6 weeks ago. I am usually very busy and don't want to waste 4 hours round trip every time I need things done on the car.
In all fairness, VRT did suggest to get different plenum and exhaust to have the car run smoother and he got my tranny replaced for free.
"please no drama here or talk bad about VTR. I wanted the F-Con and VRT is 2 hours away and not an approved installer. I din't want to drive for 2 hours to get little things done by VRT, on the other hand GTM is only 15 minus away. I found GTM after finding this forum 6 weeks ago. I am usually very busy and don't want to waste 4 hours round trip every time I need things done on the car.
In all fairness, VRT did suggest to get different plenum and exhaust to have the car run smoother and he got my tranny replaced for free.
FRANK, your Z is going to be great so rest assured.
Originally Posted by creaminz
Never had much problem dealing with VRT. I get a call from them once awhile to see if my ride running good, I thought that was pretty cool for VRT to care about my ride even after I left the shop. I'm not saying they are the best in business(could be), but they don't seem to be so horrible like many members on this board thinks.
Take care.
M
Last edited by mraturbo; 06-10-2007 at 03:53 PM.
06-10-2007, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mraturbo
Kinda funny, I haven't said anything about the whole GTM tune situation...But for you folks to beat this thing without the facts is distrurbing...
First and foremost Tom (Client)
1. Was running on 220 WHP. First time driving 500 WHP in a Roadster.
We are talking about THE FIRST 1000 miles of a newly built motor.
Been doing this a longtime so I don't hesitate to make the initial tune RICH (Safer) than pushing the limit on a breakin...
2. Tell me that is a huge change. With a client never driven FI and now has 500 WHP I think there is OK justification to keep the car a little slower with less Torque) within breakin.
3. I knew the tune was rich and wouldn't hesitate to do this again if I knew he was bringing the car back within weeks for changes.
I clearly told Tom I can easily get 80-100 FT/lbs of torque by a retune and taking fuel out...If you doubt me, ask him if we had this conversation...
4. He said the tune was fine for now and he would bring the car back within a few weeks so we could put a a True TT exhaust or custom 3 Inch...
THESE ARE FACTS...
5. I also told him the Kintx Plenum is costing him power. The stock would work better or we could develop him a custom plenum like RipDrifts///
It is funny how the client has no beef, yet you folks take ONLY some of the facts and run with the **** talking.
Look, Sam at GTM did a great job. Won't take anything from them,,,And very happy Tom is happy.
Whether you folks know it or not, Tom (ROADSTER) and I are great friends and talk almost daily...
If we would have seen the car again...Plenum change, new exhaust, and a RETUNE (That i was going to do "within two weeks" when the car was fully broken in), the results would improve. For sure...
These are Tom's OWN words...He choice to go to GTM to change the Plenem and Exhaust...
I just wish you folks would look at the whole picture instead of JUST PROMOTING parts of the picture. Well, maybe that won't happen for it seems as if PEOPLE REALY WANT TO TALK **** regardless of all of the facts. ALL GOOD.
FRANK, your Z is going to be great so rest assured. Thanks Min for all of your help. You are right, great car, great motor, great kit...
Take care.
M
First and foremost Tom (Client)
1. Was running on 220 WHP. First time driving 500 WHP in a Roadster.
We are talking about THE FIRST 1000 miles of a newly built motor.
Been doing this a longtime so I don't hesitate to make the initial tune RICH (Safer) than pushing the limit on a breakin...
2. Tell me that is a huge change. With a client never driven FI and now has 500 WHP I think there is OK justification to keep the car a little slower with less Torque) within breakin.
3. I knew the tune was rich and wouldn't hesitate to do this again if I knew he was bringing the car back within weeks for changes.
I clearly told Tom I can easily get 80-100 FT/lbs of torque by a retune and taking fuel out...If you doubt me, ask him if we had this conversation...
4. He said the tune was fine for now and he would bring the car back within a few weeks so we could put a a True TT exhaust or custom 3 Inch...
THESE ARE FACTS...
5. I also told him the Kintx Plenum is costing him power. The stock would work better or we could develop him a custom plenum like RipDrifts///
It is funny how the client has no beef, yet you folks take ONLY some of the facts and run with the **** talking.
Look, Sam at GTM did a great job. Won't take anything from them,,,And very happy Tom is happy.
Whether you folks know it or not, Tom (ROADSTER) and I are great friends and talk almost daily...
If we would have seen the car again...Plenum change, new exhaust, and a RETUNE (That i was going to do "within two weeks" when the car was fully broken in), the results would improve. For sure...
These are Tom's OWN words...He choice to go to GTM to change the Plenem and Exhaust...
I just wish you folks would look at the whole picture instead of JUST PROMOTING parts of the picture. Well, maybe that won't happen for it seems as if PEOPLE REALY WANT TO TALK **** regardless of all of the facts. ALL GOOD.
FRANK, your Z is going to be great so rest assured. Thanks Min for all of your help. You are right, great car, great motor, great kit...
Take care.
M
06-10-2007, 03:26 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by 9kFever
Gman2004 - This statement above wasn't directed at you AT ALL...No offense - PLEASE...I don't know you so I'm sure your a great guy. I just chose that specific statement and ran with it...Again No Offense.
Yet it helps to know all of the facts before passing judgments...It seems as if it is hard for many of the forum readers and active postings to do this...And it is a shame for it makes many people very Hesitant to Even Make Post at all.
IMHO...
M
Last edited by mraturbo; 06-10-2007 at 03:43 PM.
06-10-2007, 03:48 PM
#35
Originally Posted by fklentz
Well, it's sunday, the ZR has been at VRT since friday and should be running by wednesday. Driving a rented Kia sucks. I should get it back by friday.
06-10-2007, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fklentz
Well, it's sunday, the ZR has been at VRT since friday and should be running by wednesday. Driving a rented Kia sucks. I should get it back by friday.
Talk Monday Frank.
M
06-10-2007, 08:20 PM
#38
Originally Posted by mraturbo
Kinda funny, I haven't said anything about the whole GTM tune situation...But for you folks to beat this thing without the facts is disturbing...
First and foremost Tom (Client)
1. Was running on 220 WHP. First time driving 500 WHP in a Roadster.
We are talking about THE FIRST 1000 miles of a newly built motor.
Been doing this a longtime so I don't hesitate to make the initial tune RICH (Safer) than pushing the limit on a breakin...
2. Tell me that is a huge change. With a client never driven FI and now has 500 WHP I think there is OK justification to keep the car a little slower with (less Torque) within breakin.
3. I knew the tune was rich and wouldn't hesitate to do this again if I knew he was bringing the car back within weeks for changes.
I clearly told Tom I can easily get 80-100 FT/lbs of torque by a retune and taking fuel out...If you doubt me, ask him if we had this conversation...
4. He said the tune was fine for now and he would bring the car back within a few weeks so we could put a a True TT exhaust or custom 3 Inch...
THESE ARE FACTS...
5. I also told him the Kintx Plenum is costing him power. The stock would work better or we could develop him a custom plenum like RipDrifts///
It is funny how the client has no beef, yet you folks take ONLY some of the facts and run with the **** talking.
Look, Sam at GTM did a great job. Won't take anything from them,,,And very happy Tom is happy.
Whether you folks know it or not, Tom (ROADSTER) and I are great friends and talk almost daily...
If we would have seen the car again...Plenum change, new exhaust, and a RETUNE (That i was going to do "within two weeks" when the car was fully broken in), the results would improve. For sure...
These are Tom's OWN words...His choice to go to GTM to change the Plenem and Exhaust...
I just wish you folks would look at the whole picture instead of JUST PROMOTING parts of the picture. Well, maybe that won't happen for it seems as if PEOPLE REALY WANT TO TALK **** regardless of all of the facts. ALL GOOD.
FRANK, your Z is going to be great so rest assured.
Thanks Min for all of your help. You are right, great car, great motor, great kit...
Take care.
M
First and foremost Tom (Client)
1. Was running on 220 WHP. First time driving 500 WHP in a Roadster.
We are talking about THE FIRST 1000 miles of a newly built motor.
Been doing this a longtime so I don't hesitate to make the initial tune RICH (Safer) than pushing the limit on a breakin...
2. Tell me that is a huge change. With a client never driven FI and now has 500 WHP I think there is OK justification to keep the car a little slower with (less Torque) within breakin.
3. I knew the tune was rich and wouldn't hesitate to do this again if I knew he was bringing the car back within weeks for changes.
I clearly told Tom I can easily get 80-100 FT/lbs of torque by a retune and taking fuel out...If you doubt me, ask him if we had this conversation...
4. He said the tune was fine for now and he would bring the car back within a few weeks so we could put a a True TT exhaust or custom 3 Inch...
THESE ARE FACTS...
5. I also told him the Kintx Plenum is costing him power. The stock would work better or we could develop him a custom plenum like RipDrifts///
It is funny how the client has no beef, yet you folks take ONLY some of the facts and run with the **** talking.
Look, Sam at GTM did a great job. Won't take anything from them,,,And very happy Tom is happy.
Whether you folks know it or not, Tom (ROADSTER) and I are great friends and talk almost daily...
If we would have seen the car again...Plenum change, new exhaust, and a RETUNE (That i was going to do "within two weeks" when the car was fully broken in), the results would improve. For sure...
These are Tom's OWN words...His choice to go to GTM to change the Plenem and Exhaust...
I just wish you folks would look at the whole picture instead of JUST PROMOTING parts of the picture. Well, maybe that won't happen for it seems as if PEOPLE REALY WANT TO TALK **** regardless of all of the facts. ALL GOOD.
FRANK, your Z is going to be great so rest assured.
Thanks Min for all of your help. You are right, great car, great motor, great kit...
Take care.
M
I looked into the two dynos more closely, the one that you dyno'd before it left (leaving it rich for safety, presumably) and the one that was posted in the way it came to GTM.
VRT:
(posted by mraturbo in this thread: https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/266773-thanks-to-vrt-i-can-now-joint-a-500whp-club.html)
GTM:
How do you explain the enormous discrepancy?
As I see it, here are the circumstances:
First,
the actual dynos are vastly different. How do you explain the power curve AND the afr curve being so different? Look at he HP at 4000rpm on yours (200hp) and on the GTmM's dynojet (330), or torque on yours (200) and on GTM's dyno (320). What's your explanation? Not to mention the numbers being different in other places.
What about AFR. and this is the main kicker. Your response to criticism that it was way richer than 10 on GTM's dyno was that you wanted safety during breakin. Assuming that that's really the case, that you tuned the car to be that rich for break in, how come YOUR OWN AFR CURVE IS BETWEEN 11.5 and 12???
We are obviously talking about two different cars. Wow, this is utterly despicable! You give a customer a fake dyno of some other car, or photoshopped dyno of his car, after he spent god knows how much money there (and is your friend). WOW
Your explanation on this issue is pathetic even you weren't busted like you are on the AFR issue? On a fresh engine running this rich is a recipe for washing the ring/cyl walls and ruin any chances of the rings seating properly, screwing up the whole build.
Second,
On top of all that: If Tom (i believe that was his name) was really happy and truly got the results (not just the power, but overall condition of the car) he wanted, he would have gone back to you for all the corrections and would never have taken the car anywhere else. According to the GTM post, the car obviously had a bunch of issues (drivability, mechanical problems).
I am looking at this as an impartial observer trying to see the truth. And this is your good friend. I can imagine how you deal with regular customers.
Last edited by GurgenPB; 06-11-2007 at 12:40 AM.
06-11-2007, 12:05 AM
#39
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Hate to break you the news the customer (Tom) was at the Dynoshop when we dynoed the car. Not to mention, on a dynojet, wherever the operator pushes record, well, that is where it records.
WRONG DYNO...PLEASE
Not going to go back and forth with you...Why don't you ask Tom if he was at the Dynoshop...
The Answer Will be Yes. Sorry to disappoint you. I talked to him this afternoon about building him a race-car, so it is a wonder how hell bent you are to disprove me, or discredit me, or whatever...The client went to GTM, he got the Exhaust, Plenum, and Fcon as he wanted and he is happy.
We are proud to have worked on his car and looking forward to working with Tom on his car and at the Racetrack soon.
WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM...?
Have a Wonderful Day...
M
WRONG DYNO...PLEASE
Not going to go back and forth with you...Why don't you ask Tom if he was at the Dynoshop...
The Answer Will be Yes. Sorry to disappoint you. I talked to him this afternoon about building him a race-car, so it is a wonder how hell bent you are to disprove me, or discredit me, or whatever...The client went to GTM, he got the Exhaust, Plenum, and Fcon as he wanted and he is happy.
We are proud to have worked on his car and looking forward to working with Tom on his car and at the Racetrack soon.
WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM...?
Have a Wonderful Day...
M
06-11-2007, 12:38 AM
#40
Michael
It's not a problem per se... Your last post is case in point. Assume for a second that i, and everyone reading, would be receptive to a logical explanation, because i would be. And that's what I was hoping for. Instead, you are "not gonna go back and forth with you" was your answer. You say that you setup the car really rich for safety, while your own dyno shows 11.5-12:1. What are we supposed to think? Is the dyno correct or not? is your O2 sensor malfunctioning? What's the deal?
If it is the dyno of the car, then the operator pushed start at 2200rpm and held the engine at partial throttle and spooled the turbos up perfectly smoothly into full throttle to create the 4000rpm+ curves that do vaguely mimic the one gotten at GTM? That curve is obvioulsy from a setup at WOT wit hteh tubos ramoping up naturally as engine CFM increases with rpm? How can this be a dyno of the same car?
And to answer your question of what my problem is, it is that I take a risk at calling out vendors on things that are, to say the least, require honesty and clarification for the greater good of the members of this forum. If I am wrong ON THE FACTS, i will admit it. I just do not shy away from vendors/others forming bad opinions of me just because they are called out on some things. Internet is directed advertising for you guys (vendors), that also requires you to be accountable, and that's what i am talking about. That's as much offtopic as i am going to get.
It's not a problem per se... Your last post is case in point. Assume for a second that i, and everyone reading, would be receptive to a logical explanation, because i would be. And that's what I was hoping for. Instead, you are "not gonna go back and forth with you" was your answer. You say that you setup the car really rich for safety, while your own dyno shows 11.5-12:1. What are we supposed to think? Is the dyno correct or not? is your O2 sensor malfunctioning? What's the deal?
If it is the dyno of the car, then the operator pushed start at 2200rpm and held the engine at partial throttle and spooled the turbos up perfectly smoothly into full throttle to create the 4000rpm+ curves that do vaguely mimic the one gotten at GTM? That curve is obvioulsy from a setup at WOT wit hteh tubos ramoping up naturally as engine CFM increases with rpm? How can this be a dyno of the same car?
And to answer your question of what my problem is, it is that I take a risk at calling out vendors on things that are, to say the least, require honesty and clarification for the greater good of the members of this forum. If I am wrong ON THE FACTS, i will admit it. I just do not shy away from vendors/others forming bad opinions of me just because they are called out on some things. Internet is directed advertising for you guys (vendors), that also requires you to be accountable, and that's what i am talking about. That's as much offtopic as i am going to get.
Last edited by GurgenPB; 06-11-2007 at 12:41 AM.