Effectiveness of Methonal Injection
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
i know we didnt take advantage of the meth, he just wanted to spray it on top of it so the tune wasnt dependent of it.
and i was letting you know what it did, if we would have had more time , we would have leaned it out to see what we could do with it.
and i was letting you know what it did, if we would have had more time , we would have leaned it out to see what we could do with it.
or run 1psi more... i mean thats what the meth kit does... its added safety so if you hav ea tune slightly on the aggressive side on pump gas the meth kit will be an added safety feature.... if you wanna run it for more power then you have to tune with it..... and as you say, lean it out or maybe run 1 psi more.
downside of that is if you run out of methanosl in your mix, then you are way way too dangerously lean
Originally Posted by DMK
I understand how beneficial this can be with turbo applications where max boost comes on relatively low, but airflow still increases until redline. But how beneficial will this be with superchargers like Vortech? Centrifugal SC's that reach max boost at redline (usually only hitting between 7-10 psi), so max airflow and redline would be at the same point. I believe with the Snow kit, you can vary the spray pressure in increments of boost, so at 2-4-6-8 psi. Because boost changes with airflow almost in parallel, a snow kit would be sufficient I believe. No?
When both boost and rpm increase, the airflow increases that much more. Think of these as separate, independent variables in determining airflow.
A good way to think about it is injector duration. When you do WI, you always want to have a constant WFR (water/fuel ratio) of about 12.5% You can use higher WFR up to the point where the engine starts to bog (which is when yo uack off), but you get most of the knock-deterrent by runnign 12.5% WFR. Higher ratios promote more power by using water as reactant in the compenent chemical reactions of combustion. Most people do not go this far.
So...see if you can use injector duty cycle as the main signal for water flow.... but to do this, you do need a system with variable control for water flow. Also, think about how fuel is controleld on our cars...constant fuel flow and variable duration injection....that's what you need to do to wate rfor best results. So kits tha tvary water flow by varying pump voltage is extremely poor (remember ATI procharger and the DFMU?)...so you need a PWM-control of injection...the only ones that do this are aquamist and FJO.
HTH my friends.
Please keep us posted.
Originally Posted by Zivman
I am no tuner here, but it doesn't sound like you were properly tuning for the meth injection. You should have leaned the car back out, ran more timing and been able to make more power at the same boost level -> mainly due to being able to run a more agressive timing map.
Maybe his injection kit was not optimal, but it doesn't seem like you were doing what was needed to take advantage of it.
Maybe his injection kit was not optimal, but it doesn't seem like you were doing what was needed to take advantage of it.
Originally Posted by sentry65
I didn't think with a 50/50 mix, the meth would be all that corrosive from what I've read. I've heard it has more of an effect on corroding aluminum than steel.
pure water can be used in the said ratio IF IT IS PROPERLY SETUP FOR CONSTANT WFR, that is plenty of detonation resistance. methanol definitely can help, but not taht much. Now, if you have a far simpler setup, like the WI turnign on at a set threshold, then methanol would be rescueing you in this kind of setup.
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
No.. it would not be sufficient.
When both boost and rpm increase, the airflow increases that much more. Think of these as separate, independent variables in determining airflow.
A good way to think about it is injector duration. When you do WI, you always want to have a constant WFR (water/fuel ratio) of about 12.5% You can use higher WFR up to the point where the engine starts to bog (which is when yo uack off), but you get most of the knock-deterrent by runnign 12.5% WFR. Higher ratios promote more power by using water as reactant in the compenent chemical reactions of combustion. Most people do not go this far.
So...see if you can use injector duty cycle as the main signal for water flow.... but to do this, you do need a system with variable control for water flow. Also, think about how fuel is controleld on our cars...constant fuel flow and variable duration injection....that's what you need to do to wate rfor best results. So kits tha tvary water flow by varying pump voltage is extremely poor (remember ATI procharger and the DFMU?)...so you need a PWM-control of injection...the only ones that do this are aquamist and FJO.
HTH my friends.
Please keep us posted.
When both boost and rpm increase, the airflow increases that much more. Think of these as separate, independent variables in determining airflow.
A good way to think about it is injector duration. When you do WI, you always want to have a constant WFR (water/fuel ratio) of about 12.5% You can use higher WFR up to the point where the engine starts to bog (which is when yo uack off), but you get most of the knock-deterrent by runnign 12.5% WFR. Higher ratios promote more power by using water as reactant in the compenent chemical reactions of combustion. Most people do not go this far.
So...see if you can use injector duty cycle as the main signal for water flow.... but to do this, you do need a system with variable control for water flow. Also, think about how fuel is controleld on our cars...constant fuel flow and variable duration injection....that's what you need to do to wate rfor best results. So kits tha tvary water flow by varying pump voltage is extremely poor (remember ATI procharger and the DFMU?)...so you need a PWM-control of injection...the only ones that do this are aquamist and FJO.
HTH my friends.
Please keep us posted.
I know of many Evo guys running between 26-30psi with the Snow kit and 100% meth with very good results. I believe snow is also the only one that makes the safe-injection feature for stand alones. How much do Aquamist setups cost?
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
No.. it would not be sufficient.
When both boost and rpm increase, the airflow increases that much more. Think of these as separate, independent variables in determining airflow.
A good way to think about it is injector duration. When you do WI, you always want to have a constant WFR (water/fuel ratio) of about 12.5% You can use higher WFR up to the point where the engine starts to bog (which is when yo uack off), but you get most of the knock-deterrent by runnign 12.5% WFR. Higher ratios promote more power by using water as reactant in the compenent chemical reactions of combustion. Most people do not go this far.
So...see if you can use injector duty cycle as the main signal for water flow.... but to do this, you do need a system with variable control for water flow. Also, think about how fuel is controleld on our cars...constant fuel flow and variable duration injection....that's what you need to do to wate rfor best results. So kits tha tvary water flow by varying pump voltage is extremely poor (remember ATI procharger and the DFMU?)...so you need a PWM-control of injection...the only ones that do this are aquamist and FJO.
HTH my friends.
Please keep us posted.
When both boost and rpm increase, the airflow increases that much more. Think of these as separate, independent variables in determining airflow.
A good way to think about it is injector duration. When you do WI, you always want to have a constant WFR (water/fuel ratio) of about 12.5% You can use higher WFR up to the point where the engine starts to bog (which is when yo uack off), but you get most of the knock-deterrent by runnign 12.5% WFR. Higher ratios promote more power by using water as reactant in the compenent chemical reactions of combustion. Most people do not go this far.
So...see if you can use injector duty cycle as the main signal for water flow.... but to do this, you do need a system with variable control for water flow. Also, think about how fuel is controleld on our cars...constant fuel flow and variable duration injection....that's what you need to do to wate rfor best results. So kits tha tvary water flow by varying pump voltage is extremely poor (remember ATI procharger and the DFMU?)...so you need a PWM-control of injection...the only ones that do this are aquamist and FJO.
HTH my friends.
Please keep us posted.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
And Spearco. The Spearco controller uses a 0-5 volt input to start injection but the output of the controller to the pump is a PWM signal.
+1
i got the turboetics/spearco methanol kit and works excellent
MIA
That's what i am saying... it is not ideal to use variable pump output as the main way of changin water output. It's like using variable voltage going to a fuel pump to control AFR...it is jsut not ideal.
With water, it is that much more the case, as when the pump first begings to sping up, the initial low pressure cause nonatomized, dripping water to release into the piping.
Just like with fuel, you want stable pressure applied by the pump and an injector (in aquamist's case: the HSV- high speed valve, in FJO's case the solenoid/nozzle combination) injecting water/methanol at high pressures, to maintain perfect atomization.
That's what i am saying... it is not ideal to use variable pump output as the main way of changin water output. It's like using variable voltage going to a fuel pump to control AFR...it is jsut not ideal.
With water, it is that much more the case, as when the pump first begings to sping up, the initial low pressure cause nonatomized, dripping water to release into the piping.
Just like with fuel, you want stable pressure applied by the pump and an injector (in aquamist's case: the HSV- high speed valve, in FJO's case the solenoid/nozzle combination) injecting water/methanol at high pressures, to maintain perfect atomization.
Has anyone ever looked at the Alky Control unit? A lot of the Supra guys are running this setup with excellent results... One of the things that I like about these setups is that they use these kits to produce more power with pump gas not for a safty margin and they tune accordingly.
http://www.alkycontrol.com
http://www.alkycontrol.com
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