It's pressure driven by the sender unit on the oil feed side.

The only kit that has scavenging pumps on the return side is the APS ST. It sits too low and gravity will not return oil to the pan. Therefore, it must be pumped out.

 

it couldn't be too hard to hook up a scavenging pump to the vortech though right? As long as it's not stronger than the pump taking the oil in

 

I guess... I don't see why someone would bother doing all that, though. It's not needed.

Also, if it broke or stopped functioning for some reason it would be bad news as it would be blocking the flow of oil.

 

yeah, didn't think of it blocking flow if it failed

 

Deeper equates to higher.

I don't quite follow gravity pushing against gravity. It's not "column of fluid" in a U shaped system. The oil will NOT travel back down towards the pump send line because the pump is imparting a pressure on the oil to raise it. (Imparting KE for PE?) This makes no sense to me because there is a pump in the system. namely the oil sender unit. I made yet another simple diagram. And again, since the pump "pressurizes" the black line, it has no possibility of oil returning down the black line, leaving the oil to be "gravity fed" down the two lines of discussion. . .the blue or the red. The question (again. . .sigh) is whether or not the red line has the least resistance (assuming the pump ONLY gets the oil up to the blower unit) because there is nothing blocking its return, or if the blue line will fare better due to the greater head pressure (and potential energy), but have some sloshing fluid to overcome. . .

I'm not trying to patronize here, just trying to understand the logic behind the design.

 

Red.

 

VERY good question. . .and a tempting purchase because of it. If you're interested, I can keep everyone posted how the oil holds up in the ATI on my dad's car. He said it's a hassle to change since you have to get a hand pump to get it all out and it's in an awkward place. . .

 

logic left you. Im saying the red line is good. The blue line is a closed system that may not work as good as the red. Since all things are equal in the two lines except the mounting location on the return line. the red will flow better then the blue.

Yes as you go deeper in a pool the pressure will get higher. THE psi of the column of water on your body will increase. Go dive in a pool.

 

No need for the snide remarks. If you don't want to contribute, then don't post.

Agreed.

All things are not equal in the two lines. Ottherwise I wouldn't have even brought this up.
Red = less "gravity drive" but no restriction, and is KNOWN to work.
Blue = MORE "gravity drive" but possible restriction.

So is the possible restriction great enough to overcome both gravity AND the oil sender? I'm not debating whether one way is better than the other for anyone else's sake but mine.

I know. That would mean you want to have a LOWER return point (as far down from the blower as possible). The larger the height, the GREATER the pressure on the oil in the line. . .hence the "more gravity drive" on the Blue line.

 

just go with the red line. If you dont feel comfortable installing the return line get someone who does. No need to risk hurting your sc and us having to hear a Vortech sucks part 125602.

Yes, the length of the line helps get more force from gravity gravity. But, since its not a straight up and down it wont be 100%. you have to calculate what height of a column at a given angle is enough force to push up on the oil on the inside of the pan.

Since the oil in the pan is vertical it has 100% of the force downwards where the return line will be <100%. But since it has a taller column, it may be able to over come the oil in the pan. I dont like the word 'may' when it comes to heat removal in my 5k sc and engine.

 

If you have had the oil feed line off with the squirter attatched . Then turned over the motor . You would see it squirts a heavy mist of oil . This is directed towards the gears inside the gear box . The Gear box will not fill full of oil if the oil return is install like Vortech instructs . Nor will the gear box be presurised unless the return is blocked . Or if the inside of the motor is presurised keeping the oil from going down the return

 

Booger , what are you saying "The Gear box will not fill full of oil if the oil return is install like Vortech instructs" ? There installation instructions are incorrect??

 

Vortech instructions are correct . I was basicly saying the gear box IS"NT going to fill up . It will drain as fast as it goes in , unless something restricts the flow

 

Cool. . .thanks booger. It sounds like the return line is just a "collector" of the oil runoff, not pressurized by a full gear housing of oil and sender. If the return line ends below the standing oil line in the pan--as it would be with a JWT pan and it's side taps--it may slowly backfill. I bet since the APS pan has the taps on top of the wings pointing down into the extra space, there is less chance of backfill, which is probably why sentry has never seen any problems. Sentry- what's the LONGEST drive you've taken your car on? I don't plan on any super long drives, but have been known to drive for 5+ hours before.

All this being said, I think I'll get the JWT pan spacer and tap the upper pan per vortech's directions. LOL

Last question. . .I promise! For people using oil temp sensors, where did you install the sensor?

 

I've driven from phoenix to LA before and later back again, so 5+ hour trips. Everything on my gauges looked great the whole way there

my oil temp sensor is on the opposide side with the APS pan

 

Sweet, so you used the other pre-tap? Does the temp probe have to be submerged in oil?

 

i'd assume that's how you get the most accurate readings


all you gotta do is turn the car and the oil will slosh around, freeing up oil backed up in the lines if any




so is the conclusion then that all turbo kits have presurized oil coming out of the turbos and the vortech isn't pressurized? It just drains from gravity?

 

It appears that regardless of the setup, if the turbo/sc is above the oil sender, they use the oil sender as the pump (ala T fitting on the vortech).

Since APS seems to be the only company that posts detailed info, here's what I've found:

http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/turbo/turbo.htm
"The oil flow through the turbocharger is contolled precisely through an innovative oil flow control module that also acts as a highly effective debris separator in order to keep potentially harmful foreign particles from entering the turbocharger bearing assembly."

And since their (and JWT) turbo cooling is augmented by water flow, the oil flow may not need to be as high pressure.


Bingo! Here's some good info from APS:
http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/...ain_notice.htm

Looks like the flow is gravity fed, but IS in fact forced into the turbo and the return is restricted.

With this new knowledge, it appears with the smaller turbo bearing housings vs our large gear housing, oil can 'fill' the turbo and the return is restricted, causing pressurized oil through the turbo, but "gravity" drained out of the turbo.

Funny, their pictures showing the angle of the return lines are what I was getting at all along, the LOWER the return point, the GREATER the gravity feed.

 

Wouldn't tapping it lower help, similar to siphoning gas out of a car. Since the oil source is higher than the reservoir? In the case of a Vortech, where it sits higher up than turbos.

 

well if APS isn't worried about it, then neither am I

good find
APS has always been great about explaining how their kits work on their site