400rwhp sc setup vs. 400rwhp singe turb (need comparison)
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400rwhp sc setup vs. 400rwhp singe turb (need comparison)
Ok guys this may be a stupid question to some of you guys but to someone that isn't as knowledgable this is a interesting question to me so please don't do to much flaming.
The question is if you had a vortech setup for instance that produced 400rwhp on a dyno and a tn setup for example producing 400rwhp what would the outcome be in a straigh line race lets say in the 1/4 mile and also on top end. I understand that the turbo would produce more torque but im not sure which one would still be stronger because of different characteristics the FI setups have as far as when power will arrive to the engine.
I would imagine the turbo would be faster on top end but what about the 1/4 mile. I would love to see a turbo'd car that has a boost controller lower the boost on their car to match the same hp level as the supercharged car and then do a run that would be extremely interesting to me to see what the differences in power output would be at what rpm.
The reason why im interested in this is also is because im wanting to go F.I. and make a good setup on the z for drag racing and yes i understand the z is not the best car to be drag racing but that is what i enjoy. Another thing is that i also understand that people run tt set-ups with some crazy hp levels but i dont really think that is needed for a fast car. In my opinion i would rather have a more efficient set-up that can actually get the power to the ground with not to much unwasted forward momentum. Well ill see what you guys think, thanks.
The question is if you had a vortech setup for instance that produced 400rwhp on a dyno and a tn setup for example producing 400rwhp what would the outcome be in a straigh line race lets say in the 1/4 mile and also on top end. I understand that the turbo would produce more torque but im not sure which one would still be stronger because of different characteristics the FI setups have as far as when power will arrive to the engine.
I would imagine the turbo would be faster on top end but what about the 1/4 mile. I would love to see a turbo'd car that has a boost controller lower the boost on their car to match the same hp level as the supercharged car and then do a run that would be extremely interesting to me to see what the differences in power output would be at what rpm.
The reason why im interested in this is also is because im wanting to go F.I. and make a good setup on the z for drag racing and yes i understand the z is not the best car to be drag racing but that is what i enjoy. Another thing is that i also understand that people run tt set-ups with some crazy hp levels but i dont really think that is needed for a fast car. In my opinion i would rather have a more efficient set-up that can actually get the power to the ground with not to much unwasted forward momentum. Well ill see what you guys think, thanks.
depends on how much money you want to spend. the vortec is a good sc setup, but why not do a tt setup? say greddy.sure the tts will have some lag depending on how big or small the turbines are but the sc has parasitic drag due to the belt.i believe that a turbo setup is more effiecient because its using wasted exhaust gas to produce more power.but then again you have heat issues. i am sure the other guys in here will have better opinions than mine.
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yeah that is why im having so many problems trying to come to a conclusion so many different factors but im sure their is a anwer to this question thank you for your feed back, thanks. Anyone else have any idea of what setup would be better and the differences.
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ent=Ryansz.flv
heres when i had 377rwhp strock clutch..i never made it to the track with the 12psi setup but it has 431rwhp and prob would have done 11's on my drag radials and upgraded clutch...to compare...alberto had about 400rwhp and ran 11.9 so the are prob pretty close to the same...turbo might have a edge at about that hp IMO
gl with your decision...
heres when i had 377rwhp strock clutch..i never made it to the track with the 12psi setup but it has 431rwhp and prob would have done 11's on my drag radials and upgraded clutch...to compare...alberto had about 400rwhp and ran 11.9 so the are prob pretty close to the same...turbo might have a edge at about that hp IMO
gl with your decision...
All things being equal, a 400whp turbo car is going to win a 1/4 race, vs. a 400whp cent SC. The turbo car will produce close to 400ft/lbs trq, very early in the power band, which gives it an advantage over the SC setup.
turbo would win
the SC would need like 440whp or so to really compete.
there could be other factors involved though like gearing, curb weight, how much rotational mass there is, how good traction is, etc that'll influence a race
the SC would need like 440whp or so to really compete.
there could be other factors involved though like gearing, curb weight, how much rotational mass there is, how good traction is, etc that'll influence a race
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thanks guys for the vids and all the good info. Sentry i was thinking the same thing i would think the turbo car would be faster realistically but once you put traction in the equation i would think it would be harder for the turbo car to catch traction with so much torque present. Is it possible to get really good traction with all that torque the turbo produces im trying to have a efficient car not wasted hp and torque.
Originally Posted by marques1
thanks guys for the vids and all the good info. Sentry i was thinking the same thing i would think the turbo car would be faster realistically but once you put traction in the equation i would think it would be harder for the turbo car to catch traction with so much torque present. Is it possible to get really good traction with all that torque the turbo produces im trying to have a efficient car not wasted hp and torque.
If you're really serious, put on some drag wheels and slicks. In my opinion, anyone not running some sort of drag tire isn't really serious about 1/4mi times anyway...
The O.P. wanted to know if he put a turbo on a car and it made 400whp or put a SC on the SAME CAR and it made 400whp . Which would win in a 1/4 mile race .
With the same driver...hands down the turbo car would win .
No sense in making up excuses and to say if the cars wieghed the same . If the the SCed car had 440WHP , curb wt. , gearing , and rotational mass was the same .
Same car , same driver , same whp
Turbo wins !
With the same driver...hands down the turbo car would win .
No sense in making up excuses and to say if the cars wieghed the same . If the the SCed car had 440WHP , curb wt. , gearing , and rotational mass was the same .
Same car , same driver , same whp
Turbo wins !
04TreeFiddy with his vortech and 395whp did a 12.171 in the 1/4 mile on street tires
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
Last edited by sentry65; Jul 29, 2007 at 12:49 AM.
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Originally Posted by sentry65
the conclusion I've come to, is that to [I
the conclusion I've come to, is that to [I
take advantage[/I] of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears
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Originally Posted by sentry65
04TreeFiddy with his vortech and 395whp did a 12.171 in the 1/4 mile on street tires
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
The O.P. wanted to know about HIS CAR...not 4 other cars , with 4 different set ups , and 4 other drivers .
People want to keep changing a SIMPLE question into a debate on turbo's and superchargers .
A turbo will hands down be faster in the 1/4mile assuming you are a good driver. However, it seems that you are not going to be a huge 1/4mile racer so you may want to start putting some things higher on your list of priorities.
As you have read there can be a number of additional purchases that come with each setup. Figure in your budget, where you live and how your car will hold up with each setup and what future power potential you want.
I would personally perfer a twin turbo due to the power potential. However, I choose to make a custom supercharger kit based on my availibility of parts and the fact that I like to machine parts. I used to worry about which one would make me the fastest and it cost me my engine when I had a custom single turbo kit made (aside from the lack of quality workmenship and tuning). I know realize that no matter what kit I get I will still not be good enough of a 1/4mile driver to utilize the power anyways so I might as well just go with what fits my budget and needs the best.
Either way you should search this forum for weeks on each supercharger and turbocharger kit out there before you make a choice. See what other upgrades people have had to make in order to make their car reliable. See what power levels they are capable of. See what shops near you can tune the engine management that comes with the kit. Just do lots of research and come to your conclusion on what you want based off of as much knowledge you can get instead of this thread.
Hope that was some useful insight.
As you have read there can be a number of additional purchases that come with each setup. Figure in your budget, where you live and how your car will hold up with each setup and what future power potential you want.
I would personally perfer a twin turbo due to the power potential. However, I choose to make a custom supercharger kit based on my availibility of parts and the fact that I like to machine parts. I used to worry about which one would make me the fastest and it cost me my engine when I had a custom single turbo kit made (aside from the lack of quality workmenship and tuning). I know realize that no matter what kit I get I will still not be good enough of a 1/4mile driver to utilize the power anyways so I might as well just go with what fits my budget and needs the best.
Either way you should search this forum for weeks on each supercharger and turbocharger kit out there before you make a choice. See what other upgrades people have had to make in order to make their car reliable. See what power levels they are capable of. See what shops near you can tune the engine management that comes with the kit. Just do lots of research and come to your conclusion on what you want based off of as much knowledge you can get instead of this thread.
Hope that was some useful insight.
Originally Posted by booger
LOL thats pretty funny
The O.P. wanted to know about HIS CAR...not 4 other cars , with 4 different set ups , and 4 other drivers .
People want to keep changing a SIMPLE question into a debate on turbo's and superchargers .
The O.P. wanted to know about HIS CAR...not 4 other cars , with 4 different set ups , and 4 other drivers .
People want to keep changing a SIMPLE question into a debate on turbo's and superchargers .
you have to admit it, all we have to go on for guessing at this is other people's cars and their posts from over the years
There really haven't been very many people until recently who have seriously raced their vortech setup down the 1/4 mile. Even so, most have been on street tires and came up with times that are at least close to the ballpark of the turbo cars. When looking at their 60ft time with street tires, I have to wonder just how much drag radials or slicks would help them with their launch with the vortech considering people like 04treefiddy are already pulling 1.8's on their 245/45/17 Falken Ziex 512 street tires https://my350z.com/forum/drag/269707-what-is-your-best-60ft-on-street-tires-not-dr-s.html
I suspect in his case that if he was making more power or had stronger gearing etc, that better tires might help him, but he's doing pretty damn good with those tires with his setup right now and part of that has to be because of how the vortech's powerband is shaped
Last edited by sentry65; Jul 29, 2007 at 12:49 PM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
04TreeFiddy with his vortech and 395whp did a 12.171 in the 1/4 mile on street tires
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
when Alberto did his 1/4 run with the TN ST with 400whp and slicks, he did a 11.985
Taurran did a 12.345 with 412whp with TN ST on street tires
eagletanggreen with 410hp PE TT did 11.93 on drag radials and a heavy stereo
just look at the 1/4 mile times sticky thread
of course the tracks, locations, and dynos vary, but 04TreeFiddy can pretty much hang with everyone else even though he just has 395whp 325 tq and street tires. I mean, does that just mean he's that much of a better driver or his track is that much better? Who knows, but it's interesting
the conclusion I've come to, is that to take advantage of the turbo's early high torque at all, you need drag radials or slicks, otherwise it's probably wasted power in most cases except for the later gears in which case low end tq at 3k rpms doesn't matter
1. 04TreeFiddy --------------- 04 Enth 6spd ----Vortech 12.171@113.55mph 1.790 60ft Verified DR's
Compare the number of overall entries on the drag list, and compare trap speeds. Take into account there are double the number of supercharger cars entered on the list and look at the distribution of the times/traps. In the end, trap speeds will tell you what you want to know.
A turbo car will stil be faster.
oh, oops, that'd be my mistake if that's true
https://my350z.com/forum/drag/258814-so-close-i-can-taste-it.html
there's his original thread. His sig says: "12.2@115 on street tires" so maybe he meant drag radials and not his normal falkens
He didn't say in the tread what tires he ran on
there might be lots more SC in that list compared to ST, but that doesn't mean they're all great 1/4 mile drivers or have the best setup for the 1/4 mile. It just means there's been a lot of people who might casually go to the strip and report back a time
the trap speeds of the people who seem to be decent drivers don't seem to be all that different, but just a little slower maybe. AJ's car is just in a different league and a bunch of those SC times are just plain pretty bad because trapping 102-107mph can be done with some basic NA bolt ons. The whp and mods are not listed on that list so we have no idea if we're looking at a totally decked out turbo car vs a bone stock car with a base vortech kit
On average, I'd say your typical vortech setup is probably .2 seconds and 1-2mph slower than a ST kit version of the same car making the same peak whp with the same driver
https://my350z.com/forum/drag/258814-so-close-i-can-taste-it.html
there's his original thread. His sig says: "12.2@115 on street tires" so maybe he meant drag radials and not his normal falkens
He didn't say in the tread what tires he ran on
there might be lots more SC in that list compared to ST, but that doesn't mean they're all great 1/4 mile drivers or have the best setup for the 1/4 mile. It just means there's been a lot of people who might casually go to the strip and report back a time
the trap speeds of the people who seem to be decent drivers don't seem to be all that different, but just a little slower maybe. AJ's car is just in a different league and a bunch of those SC times are just plain pretty bad because trapping 102-107mph can be done with some basic NA bolt ons. The whp and mods are not listed on that list so we have no idea if we're looking at a totally decked out turbo car vs a bone stock car with a base vortech kit
On average, I'd say your typical vortech setup is probably .2 seconds and 1-2mph slower than a ST kit version of the same car making the same peak whp with the same driver
Last edited by sentry65; Jul 29, 2007 at 11:50 AM.
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I guess the turbo car will be faster so i have come to the conclusion but i think the supercharged car in the 1/4 will handle it's own but not so much on a roll where the turbo car shines. I would still like to see a two z's one with a supercharger setup and another with a single turbo race with two good drivers. Come on guys you know it would be interesting to see the difference for example the supercharged car could possible get it off the line and then get pulled up top it would be interesting to see when the torque and hp on the different cars start making a difference in the race. There has to be some people that are willing to try this there are only a million people on my 350z.