Well Ive searched for my answer but came up with nothing. Im considering the Standard APS TT Kit, my main concern is of course blowing the motor to pieces. Im looking for something pretty conservative since this will be a daily driver. At first I was sure I wanted a Vortech or TN ST, but now I figured I might aswell spend the extra cash and go TT. Now, the Standard APS kit comes with the APS EMS, how has this EMS worked out for some of you guys? Since Im not looking to push the boost, atleast not until I know I can safely do it, built motor, upgraded EMS and all that. What are your opinions on this. APS claims its plug & play, but I just want to be sure. Thanks in advance.

Oh and yes I know, the best way would definitely be built motor, Fcon or UTEC...blah blah. Thats not what I can afford at the moment. Certainly on my to do list after the TT kit is installed.

 

You will be just fine with the Unichip that comes with the APS kit. 8-9 lbs of boost and a good tune and off you go....

 

The uni-chip isn't bad. You might considering upgrading to the FCon IS (~$1,800 installed & tuned) very afforable and great unit. Also you can easily upgrade to the FCon VPro and trade in the IS, cost will be minimal since we will accept the IS as a trade in.

Let me know if you need anything, tune, EMS upgrade, etc.

-George
GT Motorsprots

 

Going from one piggyback to another..IMO ...isnt going to gain you much and would be more or less throwing your money away . Save the money till you can afford a AEM or F-con standalone . For the power you want for now . A good tune on the Unichip will work great .

 

i like the fcon but fcon is affortable??? 1800 is too much for that. why woudl he consider that for what it appear to be stock block engine or kits that wont produce more than 500whp??? and when the op looks like he wants under400whp?

George just suggest the utec for this... you guys do great job tunning with it!!! ...has been proven up to over 600whp(not as great as the vpro but it can work) and its cheaper than 1800

but i am going to +1 on booger since the unichip should be sufficient for what the powergoals needed

 

It's all about the sale ! ! !

 

whats funny is that probably what they make on the IS can be closely made on the utec and the tunning is same... so almost same profit and customer saves 300-400 bucks!

anyways

 

I don't understand how people think shops make more on the HKS stuff than other items. Sure the price for the customer is more than say the UTEC, but don't you think the shops have to pay more for HKS stuff as well? I believe the profit and mark up is the same on most items, no? 10-15% I would guess? Just because an item is more expensive doesn't necessarily mean the shop is making more profit on it.

 

Considering tuning time and the higher rates in Cali, I don't think it ends up being much more expensive than the UTEC. You're still paying a slightly higher premium for the HKS brand though.

 

Never seen anyone post this side of it. Most on here say the shops that sell HKS stuff say they do it because they make more profit on them.

 

The mark up is no big deal . Its suggesting that the OP opt for a-fconIS then trade it in later for the Pro . The power level that the OP is wanting now is easily tuned safe with the unichip and he can save at least $1300 if not more .

 

I agree. The Unichip that comes with the APS TT is adequate for a stock block setup. Build the motor and he'll want to upgrade to something else though.

 

I understand that and I would agree. If the op does not have the money to upgrade the Unichip now it will get the job done. The op did mention he had plans for the future so if he had the money now, I would definately recommend a better EMS at the time of install. You usually get better rates for package deals so it would save him money in the long run. Also by not intalling the EMS that he would eventually want the op would have to pay for another install and tune later down the road.


My post wasn't specifically referring to this theard, but just in general. A lot of members on here bash shops that sell FCONS because they think the shops are pushing them because they make more profit. Again just because a certain product costs more doesn't mean the shop makes more profit.

 

fair enough ...i do agree

 

Looks like my post was taken the wrong way ...

I personally have had the uni-chip on my car. While it did get the job done so to speak, it did have some hiccups here and there when I was putting down 430rwhp, I met Sam after that and he re-tuned it. While it did get much better there was still a hesitation in the upper RPMs we could not get out. If you look at all uni-chip dyno graphs they have some type of a dip in the upper RPMs. Sometimes you can feel it sometimes you cannot. It isn't a bad unit but there are much better options out there.

I am a firm believer that EMS is by far the most important supporting mod to an F/I project and I believe it is even more important when you have a stock block. ( Hence I purchased a VPro )

As far as a Utec, a Utec with installation and tuning will be roughly the same price, so if you are paying about the same as a Utec why not get something that is better?

I have driven cars with Utecs, Uni-chips, iS's, VPros, Reflashes, etc. by far the smoothest and most consistent are always the FCon cars. I believe the FCon iS is the most powerful piggy back available for our cars and based on my experience it is superior in all aspects.

This is my personal opinion based on my personal experiences. I personally have nothing to gain if the OP decides to stick with the uni-chip, swap it with a UTEC, FCON, or split second if he wants. I was just HONESTLY trying to provide the best advice that I could based on what I know and believe.

Sorry if it came off as a sales pitch

Good luck with the project and if you need any help along the way let me know, APS makes the best kits for our cars IMHO.

-George
GT Motorsports

 

I don't want to start a debate on this, but I'm just curious if you can give us some direct examples of why the FCON IS is "better" than the Z UTEC when it comes to a piggyback EMS for our car. As in, a list of features that make it a better buy...

One HUGE negative for me for any of the HKS products is the fact that the owner/end user is locked out of their own computer. User tunabilty of the UTEC, Haltech, and other EMS's out there is a huge plus.

 

I'd wait and put my money on a Haltech... Feature for feature, it knocks the mighty F-Con off it's throne. It's also user tunable and cheaper than the F-Con. Talk to Injected Performance about it or wait a few more weeks for the official release info.

 

I agree. If I do a standalone ems this will be the route I'll eventually go. I'm going to see other people's experiences with it first, however.

 

Taurran,

+1 On the debate

While some people do consider the end user tune-ability a negative trait of owning a FCon EMS, others do not mind since they have no intention to tune their own car regardless of what EMS they purchase.( I do agree with you on how this could be a negative feature for someone in your position )

What I am basing my example of the iS being superior to the Utec is based on the tuning side of it, not what a consumer might consider a functions/options list. The iS is much more consistent than a Utec as far as tuning goes. Any tuner who has used both system will tell you how inconsistent the Utec can be, you change one column in the 70% site and it changes something else, etc. Why it does this I don't know.

The iS interface is also much more advance and has map tracing, real time data logging with graphs, A/F feed back, etc.

Anyone who has a Utec will tell you the transition to boost isn't always smooth and you can't have a a solid tune for boost and OEM like drive ability.
With the iS we have not had any completes and all the cars are very smooth.

While I could be considered biased towards HKS (I have always been a HKS fan) if a superior product is available and I have experienced it to be so I will not try to convince people otherwise, but I honestly believe that currently the HKS FCon is still the best engine management system readily available for our cars. ( If you disagree no hard feelings )

So the reason I believe the FCon iS would be a better buy is because at the end of the day the end user will have a solid running car with OEM like drive ability for a very reasonable price.

-George
GT Motorsports

 

Usually the more something cost, the less the markup.