unchi

iTrader: (7)

Meth injection is great
the problem is there are inferior kits out there that can fail
the reason i suggest the Aquamist is the Flow gauge, and the ability
to trigger a boost cut or other fail safes if things get clogged, don't flow enough or flow too much (open line)

its well worth the extra money and you can make more than 20 whp with it

THE TECH

iTrader: (154)

I don't see that kit listed as one that they make on their site. Tell me more about it.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

sever kits off that same feature, including Cooling Mist, AEM and others

booger

iTrader: (6)

The AEM kit looks nice for the price . Includes tank , 3 jets , variable injection preasure , safety signal if the pump stops or you run out of fluid . The Snow system didnt include some of what you get with the AEM kit for about the same sprice

unchi

iTrader: (7)

Show me their FLOW sensors Not line pressure sensors
AND the gauge to display that information. Please.

unchi

iTrader: (7)

Aquamist HFS-5 Water/Methanol Injection System

In order to maximize of effect of water/methanol injection, the rate of delivery should be closely related to the real time engine operating parameters. The first objective is finding a signal that is comparable to the engine’s cooling/octane demand at the exact moment in time.

Finding the signal to match engine’s demand:
Load sensors such as throttle position, mass air flow and MAP sensor are a prime signal source of engine load. But without RPM reference, these sensor are only representing only a two dimensional impression. For example, MAF sensor without RPM reference only measures air consumption, regardless of gearing or boost pressure. The engine could be cruising at high speed (less stress) or it can be travelling at 20mph in the rally stage under extreme load and high temperature stress. The same chuck of MAF signal cannot represent the engine running conditions.

Why tracking fuel injector duty cycle:
With the help of the modern engine management system, the same chunk of MAF signal, coupled up with a bunch of signals gathered from sensors such as air temperature, coolant temperature and EGT (interpreting the lambda probe's heater element) and of course, engine speed. It will make an informed judgment when to add or trim fuel depending on the real-time operating environments. The final decision made by the management will be reflected by the duty cycle of the fuel injector. The HFS-5 uses this IDC signal to meter flow.

Picking the correct delivery method and hardware to complete the task:
We have ruled out the variable pump-speed delivery system for a numbers of reasons. Due to the inertia of the rotating mass, variable pump-speed system is not responsive to the fast changing engine load at various throttle openings and engine speed changes, especially during gear shifts. Flow range is narrow due to limited pressure span. It requires 4x the pressure change to produce twice the flow change. Poor atomisation and pulsation system pressure at low pump speed is an inherent characteristic of such a system. Consistent droplet size is vital to inlet cooling and even cylinder distribution.

HFS-5 chooses the well established method for fluid delivery:
Decision was made to employ the tried and tested delivery system similar to a fuel injection system to meter fluid flow. A 150W heavy duty pump is made specially for us by Shurflo USA. Equipped with three 125psi internal by-pass valves provides the system pressure. A surge arrestor/accumulator refines the low-ripple further. A high-speed stainless inline valve completes the line up. The valve is capable of flow over a litre of fluid at 125psi. A dedicated controller reads the fuel injector's duty cycle % and channels it to the inline valve.

A dash gauge displays the flow information from a digital turbine flow sensor:
Failsafe is serviced by the Aquamist's proven DDS3 module, designed to detect clogged nozzle and cut hose. Two switched outputs provide the necessary interface with device such as boost control valve and map switch equipped engine controllers.

HFS-5 meets all criteria of a reliable and highly precise fluid delivery system:
We believe the HFS-5 is the only fluid delivery system that meets the minimum requirement for achieving full integration into your tuning programme with absolute precision, tracking the fuel delivery is the most reliable method to meter your water/methanol flow accurately under the whole engine operating range. Anything short of this means having to tailor your fuel map to compensate the irregular fluid quantity ingested into the engine.

Should you decided not to mirror the fuel flow in your future upgrade programme, the HFS-5 system can read a PWM output from a third party engine management controller so a custom water/methanol map can be created.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

When we sell Cooling Mist for example, we include the clog nozzle indicator light and the low pressure warning light...both are included


Per our website: "The Cooling Mist DELUXE 150 psi Methanol/Water Injection kit comes with a 150 psi pump, 1 gallon water tank , water tank tapping kit and all the wiring, injectors and other things you need. This also ships with an outstanding brass checkvalve. This is a great deal!! The boost switch is adjustable from 1-25 psi. Also includes low pressure warning indicators and Clog Nozzle Detector."

Any of the kits on the market can be run off the factory ecu (via MAP reference for example), or, via a standalone engine mgmt setup, via the ecu's powered outputs (its just like activating a NOS solenoid, or electric fan switch for example)

I have not taken an AEM kit out of the box yet as we just got them in

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

I've been running the Snow kit on my STI of over a year now and love it...

THE TECH

iTrader: (154)

I saw the kit on Vivid's site. There is no mention of this kit anywhere on the Aquamist site though.

unchi

iTrader: (7)

ive had the CM kit
a pressure sensor is not a FLOW sensor
the HFS measures actual flow
i have had CM kits fail on me 5 times this year alone

and using boost as a reference for flow is imho useless
even if boost is constant the flow needed increases with Injector duty
I have been through Every kit out there, i will only use aquamist on my own car
and its the kit i prefer to sell to people even though it has the lowest profit margins

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

read what I wrote again

When we sell the kits, we include the pressure sensor AND clogged nozzle (ie flow) indicators. So, while Cooling Mist does not ordinarily include these ( we the kit is purchased through us, we include them.

Sorry your experience wasn't good....I've sold about 100 to date, and use them on 2 of our own in house cars here without incident. We have around 25 kits running on just local customer cars alone too.

There is also a huge price difference between the Aquamist kits and the Cooling Mist, and AEM, etc - to some the added expense might be worth it (it's double the price), to others, it might not, all depends what their goals and budgets are, and how complex of a setup they are looking to run. Not everyone will need or, even want, some of the extras the Aquamist kit has. We sell the Perrin version, which is essentially the same thing:

Again, it certainly is a good kit, not taking anything away from it, but it is very expensive, and beyond the scope of what many people might need.

unchi

iTrader: (7)

Read what I wrote again man
all the cooling mist indicators are is an LED and a pressure switch
it doesn't tell you how MUCH FLOW is going through the system
it simply tells you Yes the pump is on

If a Cooling mist kit hose pops it still shows pressure and your led will light
not tomention if something isnt right or there is low flow it won see it and adapt by cutting boost.

THe Aquamist comes with thier DDS3 FLOW SENSOR that reads ACTUAL flow in CC/min and displays it on the gauge
u set the window for safe operation on the gauge
above or below that it triggers the fail safes
its not dummy lights like the CM kits

Trust me i have sold many cooling mist kits and installed them
i no longer offer them or really any other than the HFS now because of what i have stated above.

The kits work ok
they are just not up to my standards for A SAFE WI kit

unchi

iTrader: (7)

A Z motor is fragile (stock)
if themeth fails on a Meth tune on a stock turbo motor
that motor is GONE

So $400 extra to protect your investment that you have spent $8000+ on already inst much of a big deal.

the perrin version dosent have enough flow for a turbo tercel (lol)
i wouldnt use that fir a Z, period

320cc a min (what perrin flows) is NOT enough

Proper meth ratio is 20-25% lets say you have 550's
you would need @ least 750-850 CC of meth to be safe

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

ANy motor tuned for meth is fragile. The timing that one runs when on meth vs not meth is night and day, which goes without saying

The Perrin kit IS an AM kit, and otehr nozzles can be purchased if needed

I am very familiar with the AM kits, I've used those as well.

The Cooling Mist kits don't show flow in cc, but they do have the clogged nozzle warning which we supply, which shows you if the flow is impeded in any way.

Each kit has its ups and downs, like any other mod you do...the key is a good installer, and more importantly, a good tuner who is familiar with meth/water/alchy injection and can write appropriate maps with sufficent margin for error worked into the equations. Much like the install/tuning of a Nitrous kit...these work exactly the same way

unchi

iTrader: (7)

Tha Perrin kit can only Flow 320CC/ min
TOTAL from the race pump

that is why this HFS kit was created
1500cc/ min flow was needed for cars that acutally wanted power

I have tuned every meth kit out there. I recommend only one
because it is the safest and most complete kit available
I prefer my customers to be over protected, rather than almost protected
when it come to thier motors health and well being.

The "clogged nozzle detector" is a pressure switch with an LED. (wont cut boost unsless you wire in a relay to it and even then wont work all that well, causes other boost issues)
It is useless if a line pops and meth is free flowing into the engine bay.
I could go on and on.
I'm not here to bash other products simply to inform people of exactly what they are getting into on these kits.

THE TECH

iTrader: (154)

PM me about the Aquamist setup.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Sharif has reported excellent results using the Speaco WIS kit...
http://www.turboneticsownersclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=37

unchi

iTrader: (7)

Yea i have used it as well (u can use maf V as the trigger )

all the kits FUNCTION well enough its when they fail or something goes wrong
that causes issues and what i like to have protection from.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Yes you can...(use MAF as trigger)

Philthy

iTrader: (3)

injection threads always get heated for some reason - people always want to crap on all other systems and think there's is the best... then there's all these worries about this fail safe and that fail safe, just get a good wideband already!