BuiltZMotors Analysis of JoeDirtPharmD engine: warning->DETAILED
#202
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Originally Posted by STL Lightning
What I don't get is all the self cheerleading by Todd in this thread and vague mud slinging at GTM.
-Mark
*edit* - FYI, I've never dealt with any of the shops in question. This is an outsiders view of these threads.
-Mark
*edit* - FYI, I've never dealt with any of the shops in question. This is an outsiders view of these threads.
If you would, go back and read some of the initial threads and you'll get a better idea of how this has escelated to the current state of affairs. Either way, our analysis is purely factual and objective, "slinging the mud" was the human side taking over, tough to resist.
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This whole thing is pointless, both sides are going to find something to help their case. Todd is offering to rebuild the motor, has proof thatthe damage was not from his work, what else can be done?
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Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
It would appear very one sided IN THIS thread if you hadn't researched and read all of the previous. As much as I should stay 100% professional, I feel like I was "stabbed in the back" day 1, when Sam lied to me and filled JoeDirtPharmD with presumptions to convince him to have GTM do all the future work at their shop.
If you would, go back and read some of the initial threads and you'll get a better idea of how this has escelated to the current state of affairs. Either way, our analysis is purely factual and objective, "slinging the mud" was the human side taking over, tough to resist.
If you would, go back and read some of the initial threads and you'll get a better idea of how this has escelated to the current state of affairs. Either way, our analysis is purely factual and objective, "slinging the mud" was the human side taking over, tough to resist.
-Mark
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Originally Posted by abyss
This whole thing is pointless, both sides are going to find something to help their case. Todd is offering to rebuild the motor, has proof thatthe damage was not from his work, what else can be done?
GTM seems to be the focus here since they diagnosed the problem, but what BZM must really be saying is their findings show that Don abused the car.
Todd, is that what you are saying?
-Mark
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Originally Posted by STL Lightning
I still wonder then why this is BZM vs GTM.. If it is not BZM's fault, then it is Don's... If you believe the theory of being pushed too hard, then it happened before going to GTM.
GTM seems to be the focus here since they diagnosed the problem, but what BZM must really be saying is their findings show that Don abused the car.
Todd, is that what you are saying?
-Mark
GTM seems to be the focus here since they diagnosed the problem, but what BZM must really be saying is their findings show that Don abused the car.
Todd, is that what you are saying?
-Mark
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Originally Posted by Fingers
GTM blamed BZM first, then they talked the vehicle owner into letting them(GTM) diagnose and strip the engine(for alot of money and effectively voiding BZM warranty.
Frankly, both shops "facts" are convincing at face value. Without the step of an additional 3rd party to look over the engine, the true true true cause may never be known.
-Mark
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so gtm is claiming that 6 defective pistons were installed?so gtm is claiming that a whole set of piston rings were defective?so gtm is claiming the money paid for this diagnosis was not sufficient to post all of the findings the first time?so gtm is claiming that with 100 years of experience no one checked those rings?100 years of what... obd trouble codes and oil changes? slimey people like you are the reason more engine builder startups are not available and the trickle down effect is less domestic development for the platform.
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Originally Posted by Fingers
GTM blamed BZM first, then they talked the vehicle owner into letting them(GTM) diagnose and strip the engine(for alot of money and effectively voiding BZM warranty.
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Originally Posted by go-fast
so gtm is claiming that 6 defective pistons were installed?so gtm is claiming that a whole set of piston rings were defective?so gtm is claiming the money paid for this diagnosis was not sufficient to post all of the findings the first time?so gtm is claiming that with 100 years of experience no one checked those rings?100 years of what... obd trouble codes and oil changes? slimey people like you are the reason more engine builder startups are not available and the trickle down effect is less domestic development for the platform.
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Originally Posted by Fingers
+1 Thank you. The guy paid top dollar to have GTM void his warranty . Now they want to waive all fees because they know that was shady business ethics.
Again, lets be rational here. The engine builder is out of town and did not install the engine. Don should have got Todd on the phone right then to get the tear down authorized (and maybe even paid for). But come on, GTM is doing what the customer asked them to do. I think their prices are high also, but cost of doing business in the L.A. market can't be cheap.
-Mark
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Originally Posted by STL Lightning
I missed the part where GTM tied up Don and made him do the work...
Again, lets be rational here. The engine builder is out of town and did not install the engine. Don should have got Todd on the phone right then to get the tear down authorized (and maybe even paid for). But come on, GTM is doing what the customer asked them to do. I think their prices are high also, but cost of doing business in the L.A. market can't be cheap.
-Mark
Again, lets be rational here. The engine builder is out of town and did not install the engine. Don should have got Todd on the phone right then to get the tear down authorized (and maybe even paid for). But come on, GTM is doing what the customer asked them to do. I think their prices are high also, but cost of doing business in the L.A. market can't be cheap.
-Mark
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Originally Posted by Fingers
They might have led him to believe that BZM would have to pay for the work if the engine was found to be faulty, either way I think he has made out ok by bringing his problems to the forum. Did you see that bill, he could have bought three engines for all that money and you honestly think BZM would pay that when it would be much cheaper to just send another engine.
The last thing we need is more speculation. Don has not said that, so why even speculate?
I saw the bill, looks really high.. Don signed off on the work, so what's the point? It is standard in the industry to NOT pay for 3rd party labor as part of a warranty on parts, so why would GTM or Don expect otherwise. If you go back to the original thread Don posted, he said specifically he was asking for a refund on the engine and not the labor - he was eating that.
-Mark
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Originally Posted by STL Lightning
I missed the part where GTM tied up Don and made him do the work...
Again, lets be rational here. The engine builder is out of town and did not install the engine. Don should have got Todd on the phone right then to get the tear down authorized (and maybe even paid for). But come on, GTM is doing what the customer asked them to do. I think their prices are high also, but cost of doing business in the L.A. market can't be cheap.
-Mark
Again, lets be rational here. The engine builder is out of town and did not install the engine. Don should have got Todd on the phone right then to get the tear down authorized (and maybe even paid for). But come on, GTM is doing what the customer asked them to do. I think their prices are high also, but cost of doing business in the L.A. market can't be cheap.
-Mark
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Originally Posted by Conceyted
You keep claiming to have read the posts from previous threads, but you keep bringing up old questions. BZM claims that Sam@GTM told him he was going to do everything in his power to keep Don at his shop and that he did not want Don sending the engine back to Todd becasue Sam had vested interest in the transaction. What GTM KNOWINGLY DID was tear down an engine that was NOT theirs to tear down after being asked by Todd to have the engine sent back to him.
And remember you are basing this off Todd's version of the conversation.
I realize this community has been rocked by the likes of VRT and I'd hate to see either of these vendors ran off. I just don't see the grand conspiracy that many of you are claiming.
-Mark
Last edited by MMC Racing; 08-31-2007 at 06:47 AM.
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So let me get this straight, GTM disassembled and then reassembled the heads before sending the motor to Todd? New pictures that we haven't seen before of the heads and valves supplied by GTM AFTER Todd's findings?? Seems VERY fishy.
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Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
So let me get this straight, GTM disassembled and then reassembled the heads before sending the motor to Todd? New pictures that we haven't seen before of the heads and valves supplied by GTM AFTER Todd's findings?? Seems VERY fishy.
either that or they just didnt present it further since previous thread got ot remmeber....a lot of the posts here about the dislike that i share with you guys on gtm on their pricing, or the ethics or about accepting teardown on the engine dont really apply to the fact on whats wrong with ...the engine?..which, yes, it had problems from day 1 and up to dynocomp i know nothing about overreving or any of that crap took place.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 08-31-2007 at 07:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by STL Lightning
Ok, this strikes me as funny because I thought Don owned the engine? As the owner of the engine, Don authorized GTM to do the work.
And remember you are basing this off Todd's version of the conversation.
I realize this community has been rocked by the likes of VRT and I'd hate to see either of these vendors ran off. I just don't see the grand conspiracy that many of you are claiming.
-Mark
And remember you are basing this off Todd's version of the conversation.
I realize this community has been rocked by the likes of VRT and I'd hate to see either of these vendors ran off. I just don't see the grand conspiracy that many of you are claiming.
-Mark
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Oh and one more thing as a response to Sam claiming it was an engine problem from Day 1. If I recall, day 1 consisted of Don installing the motor. Starting the motor up. Finding a track to which he proceeded to (and admittedly) WOT the UNTUNED engine. Once he saw the car stumble he brought it in to the tuner. I do not have the extensive knowledge of engine building that either Sam nor Todd has, but couldn't this alone have done what Todd and Sam both found wrong with this motor? Maybe not all at once, but once the piston collapsed couldn't the rest of these problems occurred soon after?
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Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
either that or they just didnt present it further since previous thread got ot remmeber...